Two job offers from Civil Service (EO) - Unsure which one to choose

darkclouds001

Hello all,
To give you a bit of a background, I've never been a civil servant and always worked in private sector. I was made redundant due to Covid-19 as my work place shut down. I'm 30 years old and live in London. I've been applying for jobs in Civil Service for months and recently have finally been given two provisional job offers at EO grade. I'm completely torn and unsure which one to choose, as both seem like a great opportunity to break into Civil Service, and the job roles also sound very interesting.

Both roles are at EO grade. One is Business Support Officer (Learning & Development at Capabilities Team) at Ministry of Housing, Communities & Local Government. The other one is Work Coach at Department for Work and Pensions. The role at MHCLG is a permanent contract, with salary of £27,300; whereas the role at DWP is an 18-month contract, with salary of £31,060 (it was initially 12 months but they just confirmed they would be extending it to 18 months). I love the sound of both, as the job descriptions sound very promising, especially for someone breaking into Civil Service.

In MHCLG, I love the fact that I'd be organising learning and development events, managing Fast Streamers and promoting talent, inclusive careers and building Capability strategies. With the DWP role, I'm excited about the fact, as a Work Coach, I'd be making big difference to people's lives, supporting them in getting back to work, building relationships with all sorts of people from different walks of life.

MHCLG would be working from home (depending on Covid situation), DWP is working from an allocated Job Centre (although customers don't go into Job Centres because of the pandemic and all the communication is done digitally or via phone calls). After the pandemic, it would all anyway be from the office.

I'm tempted to go for the 18-month role at DWP as it is paid almost £4,000 more pa and will allow me to save considerably more. However, the comforting fact that the MHCLG role is permanent and performed from home is also tempting, even though it pays less. With DWP, all my pre-employment checks are almost complete and I could start within 3 weeks, whereas MHCLG haven't started my checks yet and I'd need to wait until at least mid November to start. I'm unemployed currently, with some savings left, so it doesn't matter massively, but still.

Can anyone offer any insight into my problem, perhaps any existing Civil Servants with similar positions that could maybe advise on the choice? Which role gives me more transferable skills or more solid background for any future progression in Civil Service? Are there any existing Work Coaches here that give me any insight into "the average day" of the job?

Thank you so much.

Floop

I have worked for both of those govt depts. I would choose the MHCLG one because the culture and support is a lot better. Plus it is permanent - I wouldn’t go for a fixed term, you’ll be job hunting again in a year. Work coach job is hard and will be pretty grotty with all that’s going on, increased claims etc. 

It’s easy to move around in Civil Service and I guarantee there will be many more opportunities to do so in MHCLG than there will be In DWP, because MHCLG is policy led which leads to wider range of roles. With the Beyond Whitehall agenda in full swing, even more so. Also you will be able to work from home for at least part of the week after covid, DWP that won’t be possible and I believe they do a shift pattern with the work coaches.  DWP is operational which means most of the jobs are lower grades and on front line. Much more difficult to progress/develop/move around, especially if you are outside London.

JReacher1

I would go for the permanent job. Work coach will be depressing

TELLIT01

Work coach has to be one of the most difficult jobs out there.  I worked for DWP for 7 years and was glad to get out when retirement day arrived.  I had also previously always worked in the private sector, apart from a couple of short contracts in public sector, and couldn't believe just how poorly DWP offices and systems are managed.  I would definitely go for the job not in DWP.

darkclouds001

Thank you everyone. Does any of the civil servants know how you move from one department to another? Let's say I take a Work Coach 18month fixed term role, and start looking straight after probation. If I'm successful at interviews, do I just switch the "core" department? What happens to my salary, if I earn £31k but later move to an EO role which pays £28k, do I keep my £31k or do I need to downgrade? I know there are things like 'loans' from other departments, not sure I understand that.

Voyager2002

darkclouds001 said:

Thank you everyone. Does any of the civil servants know how you move from one department to another? Let's say I take a Work Coach 18month fixed term role, and start looking straight after probation. If I'm successful at interviews, do I just switch the "core" department? What happens to my salary, if I earn £31k but later move to an EO role which pays £28k, do I keep my £31k or do I need to downgrade? I know there are things like 'loans' from other departments, not sure I understand that.

There are many different routes from one job to another: one important scheme allows you to transfer to a different department but only to an actual vacancy at the same grade, while other routes allow you to apply for vacancies at any grade. Each department sets its own pay scale so your salary would normally change if moved to a different job at the same grade.

There are many vacancies that are not advertised outside the Civil Service and for which only an Established Civil Servant (someone who has passed the probationary period and generally will not be on a fixed-term contract) can apply. In order to see details of these vacancies you must inform your line manager, who is also informed if you apply for anything.

Kathy535

I worked in DWP for years and have loads of friends still there. Personally I wouldn’t be convinced that you’d feel like you were helping people, The sanctions regime is brutal and the friends I have report being demoralised, under pressure from managers to hit targets and having to deal with desperate and often aggressive customers.  For me the additional £230 a month (approx and after tax) wouldn’t be worth the extra stress.

This might have changed, but you’d want to check whether you’d be able to move into another department if you were on a fixed term contract.  When I worked there jobs were often restricted to permanent staff only.

if you want to progress in the civil service then it’s easier in a policy job.  This is because the grade mix is weighted towards more senior staff (more thinking, analysing, influencing and engagement with Minsters) than it is in operational departments (where there are more admin grades and therefore more competition for the fewer, higher grades).  As an example, 10 yrs ago policy departments had around 3-5% of their staff as Senior Civil Servants while Operational Depts had approx 0.5%. 

I’d recommend the corporate role in a policy department  It’s much easier to go from policy to operations than it is to go to the other way round for some reason.  And, it’s permanent.  With a huge recession looming staff on FTCs will be the first to go in any government department.  Frankly, I’m surprised that MCLG are recruiting to permanent posts, I bet in 6 months time permanent posts will be as rare as hens’ teeth. 

In summary, I’d prioritise security and working environment over additional pay.  

Floop

Moving around is easy. Once you have passed your 6 month probation you are free to apply for any roles advertised across govt, whether you are on a fixed term or not. A lot are only advertised that way so are only accessible to  existing civil servants. MHCLG is unusual in that it advertises all its vacancies externally. 

Pay usually doesn’t go down if you transfer within the same grade - they match it but you won’t get any of the annual increases until the bottom of the payscale catches up. I think there is an exception if you move from a London payscale to a non London payscale, in which case your pay can go down. 

Do bear in mind that departments can block lateral transfers, but can’t block promotions. Mostly no one blocks you as clearly if you get another job you don’t want to be there, but I have known it happen (leaving very p’d off staff - daft in my opinion!) 

But go for the permanent one - I have noticed that jobs in civil service are increasingly being advertised as fixed term- I agree with the poster above in lean times this will become the norm for a while. Don’t pass up the security for either slightly higher pay or the misguided notion you might be helping people! 

strawb_shortcake

The department I work in is offering opportunities to be loaned out to MHCLG to support Brexit. 
I can't see myself ever leaving my department but plenty do, you get some that bounce around different departments for the extra bit of pay that some departments offer, or get promotion at higher salary then come back to the home dept on a much higher salary. 
DWP seems to be the biggest influx to us from other areas.

darkclouds001

Thank you everyone for your advice! I decided to go for the MHCLG job, and withdrew my decision with the DWP! All thanks to the great advice received, thank you all! Job security is more important at the moment. 

Dazed_and_C0nfused

Your future self will also thank you as you have chosen the job with a definite DB pension.

Assuming you stay for the minimum of 2 years you will be contributing c£1500 each year (c£1200 after tax relief) in pension contributions and getting a pension of £633 each year from age 68 in return.  Not to be sniffed at.