3rd SEISS Self Employment Grant ?

mobilejo

trickydicky1000 said:

My son works in construction registered CIS. He's received the first 2 Grant's but has recently returned to work albeit part time. Before he claims the 3rd grant he wants to know where he stands.
His firm is making him and others work for nothing because they got the Grant's. Is this right?

What does your gut to tell you? To me, working for free is means either I'm a volunteer, or a slave. There is nothing right about what he's being asked IMO.

I assume he would have quit (why work for £0?) aside from the fact he hopes that working for free now leads to more work in the future? I wouldn't be happy with that - they could let him go as soon as the 'free' work ends.

Jeremy535897

trickydicky1000 said:

My son works in construction registered CIS. He's received the first 2 Grant's but has recently returned to work albeit part time. Before he claims the 3rd grant he wants to know where he stands.
His firm is making him and others work for nothing because they got the Grant's. Is this right?

CIS subcontractors are self employed, so don't have the protections (including minimum wage) that employees have. If the main contractor says work for nothing, their only option is to refuse. The main contractor cannot make them work.

comeandgo

trickydicky1000 said:

My son works in construction registered CIS. He's received the first 2 Grant's but has recently returned to work albeit part time. Before he claims the 3rd grant he wants to know where he stands.
His firm is making him and others work for nothing because they got the Grant's. Is this right?

Why is he not back full tiime?  Please name the main contractor asking subs to work for nothing.

fenwick458

comeandgo said:

trickydicky1000 said:

My son works in construction registered CIS. He's received the first 2 Grant's but has recently returned to work albeit part time. Before he claims the 3rd grant he wants to know where he stands.
His firm is making him and others work for nothing because they got the Grant's. Is this right?

Why is he not back full tiime?  Please name the main contractor asking subs to work for nothing.

that name will probably not be forthcoming. I quite often see provocative posts on this board by a member who has just joined and has a low post count of 1-2.
does that not seem strange?
and who works for nothing? quite frankly if someone is dim enough to work for nothing, I'd let them get on with it. survival of the fittest and all that

Yahoo_Mail

ade111 said:

so   first seiss payment was 80 percent  for mar to may and was paid in  mid may.  2nd payment  70 percent was for june to august and was paid mid august.    The 3rd payment - just. 20 percent will be from november till january?  so  will be  paid  mid january?   Therefore will get nothing at all until january   why the gap?  why no  august till october payment?

That's not how SEISS worked.  It didn't cover clear three month periods like you suggest, although it's understandable people felt it did.

The second grant was for businesses affected after July 14th and was available mid-August.  By that example, the third grant will cover businesses affected from Oct 20th and will be available about a month later, so around Nov 20th.

Jeremy535897

Yahoo_Mail said:

ade111 said:

so   first seiss payment was 80 percent  for mar to may and was paid in  mid may.  2nd payment  70 percent was for june to august and was paid mid august.    The 3rd payment - just. 20 percent will be from november till january?  so  will be  paid  mid january?   Therefore will get nothing at all until january   why the gap?  why no  august till october payment?

That's not how SEISS worked.  It didn't cover clear three month periods like you suggest, although it's understandable people felt it did.

The second grant was for businesses affected after July 14th and was available mid-August.  By that example, the third grant will cover businesses affected from Oct 20th and will be available about a month later, so around Nov 20th.

Originally HMRC did say SEISS 1 was March to May, and that is why they had to clarify that it was all assessable in 2020/21, not one third in 2019/20 (for those making accounts up to the end of March or 5 April and on an accruals basis). For SEISS 3 and 4, see excerpt from fact sheet https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/921386/FINAL_SE_factsheet.pdf
"What does the grant cover? The extension will provide two grants and will last for six months, from November 2020 to April 2021. Grants will be paid in two lump sum instalments each covering a three month period. The first grant will cover a three-month period from the start of November until the end of January. The Government will provide a taxable grant covering 20 per cent of average monthly trading profits, paid out in a single instalment covering 3 months’ worth of profits, and capped at £1,875 in total. The Government are providing broadly the same level of support for the self-employed as is being provided for employees through the Job Support scheme. The second grant will cover a three-month period from the start of February until the end of April. The Government will review the level of the second grant and set this in due course. The grants are subject to Income Tax and National Insurance Contributions"

Martin hopes that the lack of detail about the second of these grants, and the fact that the 2019/20 return should be filed by 31 January 2021, may mean they might consider 2019/20 results for the last instalment, but don't hold your breath.

ade111

thankyou  for  explaining  ,   can rest a bit easier now,    a payment in november would be perfect.

Jeremy535897

ade111 said:

thankyou  for  explaining  ,   can rest a bit easier now,    a payment in november would be perfect.

November was a guess by Yahoo_Mail. The fact sheet says SEISS 3 will cover the period 1 November to 31 January. SEISS 1 was originally supposed to be for March to May, paid in July. SEISS 2 has effectively ended up covering June to October, paid August. It's not obvious when SEISS 3 will be paid.

[Deleted User]

No, but we will receive confirmation again from HMRC, telling us we are eligible and that they will process it as before, the system works quite well.

unholyangel

trickydicky1000 said:

My son works in construction registered CIS. He's received the first 2 Grant's but has recently returned to work albeit part time. Before he claims the 3rd grant he wants to know where he stands.
His firm is making him and others work for nothing because they got the Grant's. Is this right?

Your son must be self employed if they're registered for CIS, and working as a subcontractor. 

What's the penalty/result of not working for free? Because what you've said, it sounds like it's more a relationship of employee/employer - which means your son would potentially be entitled to holiday pay, sick pay, redundancy etc.

The bottom line is that your son doesn't have to work for nothing. He's entitled to SEISS himself, due to his self employment. The fee he should be paid under his contract with the firm is an entirely separate matter (as long as his trade is adversely affected by covid of course, as per eligibility of SEISS). However, they could terminate his contract in response. 

We're going to have a lot of situations coming up where contractors or employers try to take advantage. It's not right, but a lot of people are going to have to choose between going along with something that's unfair or looking for a new job. It's all fine & well saying people have rights but enforcing those rights take time and there are never any guarantees. 

Something ironic has just occurred to me though. The tories were the party who have consistently eroded employment rights, purposely to make it easier for employers to get rid of staff. They're now offering up billions of taxpayer funds to try and encourage employers not to get rid of staff. Politicians never pay for their mistakes.

It's always the taxpayer left carrying the can. There's more accountability on your lowest level of civil servants - carrying out government direction than there is at the top, for those actually giving the direction. Absolutely barmy way to run a country.