Chancellor's Job Support scheme

Thrugelmir

Tammykitty said:

This is crazy - the scheme should be spilt into different sectors now:

1)Those operating as normal or who actually have increased businesses
2)Those operating to some degree of normality - this scheme works well for these
3) Industries which are open with serious restrictions/drop in incomes
Domestic Trades and any business that involves going into peoples homes
Pubs 
Taxi
4)Those which are still not allowed to operate to any proper degree:
Wedding & Events
Entertainment
Nightclubs


Obviously, the affected industries would need to be looked at, and a robust list drawn up

Such a concept is crazy.  

Tammykitty

Thrugelmir said:

Tammykitty said:

This is crazy - the scheme should be spilt into different sectors now:

1)Those operating as normal or who actually have increased businesses
2)Those operating to some degree of normality - this scheme works well for these
3) Industries which are open with serious restrictions/drop in incomes
Domestic Trades and any business that involves going into peoples homes
Pubs 
Taxi
4)Those which are still not allowed to operate to any proper degree:
Wedding & Events
Entertainment
Nightclubs


Obviously, the affected industries would need to be looked at, and a robust list drawn up

Such a concept is crazy.  

What is crazy is not providing support for industries that are not allowed to open or operate!
The new scheme is only supporting large businesses if their income has fallen - its not difficult to operate tailored schemes.
The self employed already have an industry listed on their tax returns - this could easily be used to tailor a scheme for a them.

gary83

Tammykitty said:

Thrugelmir said:

Tammykitty said:

This is crazy - the scheme should be spilt into different sectors now:

1)Those operating as normal or who actually have increased businesses
2)Those operating to some degree of normality - this scheme works well for these
3) Industries which are open with serious restrictions/drop in incomes
Domestic Trades and any business that involves going into peoples homes
Pubs 
Taxi
4)Those which are still not allowed to operate to any proper degree:
Wedding & Events
Entertainment
Nightclubs


Obviously, the affected industries would need to be looked at, and a robust list drawn up

Such a concept is crazy.  

What is crazy is not providing support for industries that are not allowed to open or operate!
The new scheme is only supporting large businesses if their income has fallen - its not difficult to operate tailored schemes.
The self employed already have an industry listed on their tax returns - this could easily be used to tailor a scheme for a them.

We’re 6 months into this pandemic affecting the UK and theres not much sign of things improving anytime soon so for how long should we tailor support to businesses that are no longer viable? 9 months? 12 months? 18 months? 2 years? 3 years?

Jeremy535897

Tammykitty said:

Thrugelmir said:

Tammykitty said:

This is crazy - the scheme should be spilt into different sectors now:

1)Those operating as normal or who actually have increased businesses
2)Those operating to some degree of normality - this scheme works well for these
3) Industries which are open with serious restrictions/drop in incomes
Domestic Trades and any business that involves going into peoples homes
Pubs 
Taxi
4)Those which are still not allowed to operate to any proper degree:
Wedding & Events
Entertainment
Nightclubs


Obviously, the affected industries would need to be looked at, and a robust list drawn up

Such a concept is crazy.  

What is crazy is not providing support for industries that are not allowed to open or operate!
The new scheme is only supporting large businesses if their income has fallen - its not difficult to operate tailored schemes.
The self employed already have an industry listed on their tax returns - this could easily be used to tailor a scheme for a them.

This field is not limited in how it is completed, so I doubt that it would be possible to use its contents to analyse who should receive tailored support (if you accept the premise in the first place). VAT information may be able to be used, but only for registered businesses.

Grumpy_chap

Jeremy535897 said:

Tammykitty said:

Thrugelmir said:

Tammykitty said:

This is crazy - the scheme should be spilt into different sectors now:

1)Those operating as normal or who actually have increased businesses
2)Those operating to some degree of normality - this scheme works well for these
3) Industries which are open with serious restrictions/drop in incomes
Domestic Trades and any business that involves going into peoples homes
Pubs 
Taxi
4)Those which are still not allowed to operate to any proper degree:
Wedding & Events
Entertainment
Nightclubs


Obviously, the affected industries would need to be looked at, and a robust list drawn up

Such a concept is crazy.  

What is crazy is not providing support for industries that are not allowed to open or operate!
The new scheme is only supporting large businesses if their income has fallen - its not difficult to operate tailored schemes.
The self employed already have an industry listed on their tax returns - this could easily be used to tailor a scheme for a them.

This field is not limited in how it is completed, so I doubt that it would be possible to use its contents to analyse who should receive tailored support (if you accept the premise in the first place). VAT information may be able to be used, but only for registered businesses.

If this refers to the SIC code, many companies, even quite large ones, have an SIC code that is entirely incorrect.  Many reasons why that happens.

Jeremy535897

Grumpy_chap said:

Jeremy535897 said:

Tammykitty said:

Thrugelmir said:

Tammykitty said:

This is crazy - the scheme should be spilt into different sectors now:

1)Those operating as normal or who actually have increased businesses
2)Those operating to some degree of normality - this scheme works well for these
3) Industries which are open with serious restrictions/drop in incomes
Domestic Trades and any business that involves going into peoples homes
Pubs 
Taxi
4)Those which are still not allowed to operate to any proper degree:
Wedding & Events
Entertainment
Nightclubs


Obviously, the affected industries would need to be looked at, and a robust list drawn up

Such a concept is crazy.  

What is crazy is not providing support for industries that are not allowed to open or operate!
The new scheme is only supporting large businesses if their income has fallen - its not difficult to operate tailored schemes.
The self employed already have an industry listed on their tax returns - this could easily be used to tailor a scheme for a them.

This field is not limited in how it is completed, so I doubt that it would be possible to use its contents to analyse who should receive tailored support (if you accept the premise in the first place). VAT information may be able to be used, but only for registered businesses.

If this refers to the SIC code, many companies, even quite large ones, have an SIC code that is entirely incorrect.  Many reasons why that happens.

Many people put the wrong date for when they started trading too, but that wasn't a barrier to using the data for SEISS.

Thrugelmir

gary83 said:

Tammykitty said:

Thrugelmir said:

Tammykitty said:

This is crazy - the scheme should be spilt into different sectors now:

1)Those operating as normal or who actually have increased businesses
2)Those operating to some degree of normality - this scheme works well for these
3) Industries which are open with serious restrictions/drop in incomes
Domestic Trades and any business that involves going into peoples homes
Pubs 
Taxi
4)Those which are still not allowed to operate to any proper degree:
Wedding & Events
Entertainment
Nightclubs


Obviously, the affected industries would need to be looked at, and a robust list drawn up

Such a concept is crazy.  

What is crazy is not providing support for industries that are not allowed to open or operate!
The new scheme is only supporting large businesses if their income has fallen - its not difficult to operate tailored schemes.
The self employed already have an industry listed on their tax returns - this could easily be used to tailor a scheme for a them.

We’re 6 months into this pandemic affecting the UK and theres not much sign of things improving anytime soon so for how long should we tailor support to businesses that are no longer viable? 9 months? 12 months? 18 months? 2 years? 3 years?

I don't think that the reality of the challenges ahead has sunk in yet. Full recovery, if ever, is years away in some sectors. 

40FTB2020

Using your example of the 3 employees. 

For small business they may have 
employee 1 who works in the finance department, there’s not enough work for full time as not as many customers/suppliers to sort. But still a small amount so some work to do. 

Employee 2 is a sales person. Still a couple of active client accounts but not the full amount. Also some chasing up of leads required in order to secure future business but not enough work for full time. 

Employee 3 is a designer. Does client work but again not enough work at the moment. 

Now the company has 3 employees but not enough work to justify paying them all for full time, but none of the employees can do each other’s work. 

Previous option was to close down the business as for the next few months there is not enough income to cover all the costs. In 6 months when all the customers come back those employees will hopefully have found other jobs so the company will be stuck with no skilled experienced staff and will need to train up new people. 

New schemes means that the company can do some trading, pay staff a reduced amount and hopefully increase the company turnover a little bit each month so that In 6 months the company has lots of clients back and can afford all its staff to come back full time. 

40FTB2020

So it’s for many companies not as simple as 3 employees on 1/3 hours = 1 employee. That might work in a call centre but this scheme is going to benefit SMEs who have a variety of staff but just not enough work for everyone to be working full time. 

Galloglass

What happens when we run out of free money? Print some more?

By definition, a viable business won't need support as they can exist on existing [lower] cash flow by trimming costs - the unviable jobs. Or by raising capital.

The scheme disrupts the normal banking / financing arrangements where a business would seek bank/equity cash injections based on their prospects. This is designed to protect banks that may have taken a punt in exotic equities or more likely, the mortgage market.