VCS - Court Claim. Is it worth including a Counter Claim?

Le_Kirk

satchy_b said:

Therefore, we are willing to accept a reduced settlement of £145 payable within 14 days from the date of this letter. 

Given the original PCN was for £100, how is £145 a reduction?  £20 would be a reduction but, given they are so confident, why would they offer any reduction.  You could revert with a lower offer!

D_P_Dance

One for you Bargepole.   As this is not a genuine reduction, if this were marked "without prejudice",  would the usual caveats apply?  

Ralph-y

yes ...

"This offer is made on a "without prejudice" (save as to costs) basis. Should you fail to accept our offer of settlement then we will proceed to Trial and bring this letter to the Court's attention"

I think they have started on the Christmas nog early

Ralph

nosferatu1001

They can do so after the claim has been judged. That's the as to costs part. 

I'd offer them a drop hands offe,r on the basis their claim is hopeless

Snakes_Belly

Coupon-mad said:

Not normally, but during the pandemic they have no choice and would look pretty stupid complaining to a Judge that they weren't sent paper.

I don't know why they don't accept them by email because they then have to scan them in which results in missing pages etc. They then claim that the defendant has not sent them all the pages etc. 

When Excel/VCS make an offer they often end up pulling at the brink. 

I agree with offering a drop hands at least it shows the judge that an attempt has been made to resolve the claim.

satchy_b

Snakes_Belly said:

I agree with offering a drop hands at least it shows the judge that an attempt has been made to resolve the claim.

Thanks to everyone who's recently replied. I have a few more questions:

1. Forgive me, but what is a 'drop hands offer'?

2. So it sounds like I should be ok to email the documents to VCS!? Can I email the documents to the Court also (using ccbcaq@justice.gov.uk), or is there a different email? Or do they have to be posted?

3. As I wasn't driving is it worth including my insurance docs as evidence of there being another named driver?

4. It's been booked in for a 30min hearing and not yet a proper trial, is it therefore worth including all the letters that I wrote to VCS in reply to their letters or is it pointless at this stage? Given that this hearing is only 30mins long and my main defence/arguments are: 'Abuse of process' (trying to claim for more than £100); I wasn't driving so couldn't have entered into a contract; NtK wasn't issued in accordance with PoFA. 

Thanks

nosferatu1001

1) you drop and walk away. No side gets any money from the other side. So they don't get costs from you, you don't get costs from them. It's easy to google the term. 

2). Yes. Email,  NO you don't email a WS to the ccbc. They have NOTHING to do with your case now - only the local court.  The one you picked. Which has an email address got you to use. 

3) Your job in the WS is to convince the court that what you say in the WS is the truth. You include any and all evidence that supports that. You also, of course, point out that ANYONE 
- with your permission AND
- drive other vehicles cover in their insurance could have druven

Can you evidencebyour location at the material time? If so, guess what...

4) you file and serve as the court orders. If they've told you to file ALL documents you intend to rely on, then file ALL documents!  There's no guessing needed. Do what the court orders. 

Do the letters they've sent help you or not? If they do, include, if nit, don't. 

satchy_b

Thanks @nosferatu1001 @Snakes_Belly @Coupon-mad
A few other questions for anyone who knows the answers...

1. On the Court letter is says to send all "evidence and documents...to all other parties". I assume this means that I should also send my Witness Statement to the Claimant. Is that right?

2. Is the Defence I sent to the Court also considered a 'document' that needs to be sent to the Claimant?

3. My evidence is mainly copies of letters and documents (e.g. car insurance certificate). When labelling exhibits as mentioned in my Witness Statement is it OK to just put XX01, etc., (where XX are my initials) in the top right-hand corner of each? Or is there special way I should be doing it/wording I should be using?

Thanks

bargepole

1. Everything you send to the Court also gets sent to the Claimant, so that you, their advocate, and the Judge are all looking at the same bundle, with all pages and paragraphs numbered.

2. No. The Claimant will already have a copy of your Defence, and so will the Court.

3. Yes, your exhibits should be numbered XX01 etc at the top, as referenced in your WS, eg ''I sent a letter to the Claimant on 5 August 2020. A copy of the letter is exhibited at XX04''.

bargepole

D_P_Dance said:

One for you Bargepole.   As this is not a genuine reduction, if this were marked "without prejudice",  would the usual caveats apply?  

This is a tricky one.

Let's say the original amount on the Claim Form was £260 (yes I know that includes the fake £60 add-on, which most Judges never award). They have offered to settle for £145 on a WPSATC basis.

Now let's say you lose the case, and after disallowing the £60, the Judgment is for £200 in the Claimant's favour. Their advocate might say that you should have settled at the lower figure, and the court hearing, and their advocate's costs, would have been unnecessary. Some Judges will agree with that, and award their advocate's fee, applying the same principle as Part 36 offers in Fast Track cases.

Conversely, if you have sent them a drop hands offer, and you win, you can make the same argument for recovering all your preparation costs at £19/hour, plus postage, stationery, etc.

So it's like a game of Poker, where both players have raised and re-raised the stakes. Only the Judge can decide who has the winning hand.