Three siblings, no will, straight to cremation dispute

Marcon

prowla said:

If it turns out that there is anything in the estate after all, with no will it should be divided between the three siblings.

That's the legal position, but if there are doubts about the solvency of the estate, doing nothing is the only sensible option. 

clearancer said:

 I'm angry that dad has died in debt. I'm angry that dad has not written a will or left any instructions. 

Why are you angry that he died in debt and didn't leave a will? On your own admission you fell out years ago, so any expectation of an inheritance is surely unrealistic?

clearancer

Thanks everyone for your help. No idea where the car is. Should my brother phone the police? I’ve had to block my sister on Facebook, she got really nasty when I suggested I put £500 in her bank to pay towards the funeral that I won’t be going to. 

Aranyani

clearancer said:

Thanks everyone for your help. No idea where the car is. Should my brother phone the police? I’ve had to block my sister on Facebook, she got really nasty when I suggested I put £500 in her bank to pay towards the funeral that I won’t be going to. 

It would make more sense to just walk away and not get any more involved in the situation.  There are no benefits to anybody in delving into your dad's finances and affairs. 

MoneySeeker1

understandable reaction indeed if OP does just walk away.

I'm not sure a lot of us would know what to do in these circumstances. It's not a "tidy" situation - whether of the fair or unfair variety. I guess a lot of us assume that we will leave things "tidy" and so will other people - ie no debts (if the death could reasonably be expected for any reason), enough money sat there one way or other to deal with funeral, etc.

In OP's situation - I don't know whether I'd be trying to make it as "tidy" as it should have been left by the father - pay off debts, sort out a funeral, etc. I'd be inclined to write very apologetic letters personally to anyone owed money by my father - very regretful/father was absolutely wrong to leave them being owed money/etc - but I don't know whether that would be a "safe" thing to do from OP's viewpoint (in case the creditors took it that I'd be paying his debts in his stead and started pursuing me for them). Again - circumstances can vary on that one. I'd tend to take the viewpoint personally of paying off the debts (even though I wasn't legally liable for them) - if I had the spare money to do so (as I don't believe in people being left owed money due to no fault/choice of theirs). If I didn't - then obviously I couldnt afford to.

Malthusian

MoneySeeker1 said:

In OP's situation - I don't know whether I'd be trying to make it as "tidy" as it should have been left by the father - pay off debts, sort out a funeral, etc. I'd be inclined to write very apologetic letters personally to anyone owed money by my father - very regretful/father was absolutely wrong to leave them being owed money/etc - but I don't know whether that would be a "safe" thing to do from OP's viewpoint (in case the creditors took it that I'd be paying his debts in his stead and started pursuing me for them).

Morally, if it makes you feel better to write letters on behalf of your dad apologising for him leaving an insolvent estate then knock yourself out. It's a completely empty gesture, as you aren't responsible for his actions and leaving an insolvent estate is nothing to apologise for anyway. But your dad is dead so can't feel annoyed at you apologising for non-existent sins on his behalf.

It is not a sin to leave an insolvent estate. Lenders know that some of the people they lend money to won't pay it back, that's why they charge interest. Win some lose some. When someone dies before they live long enough to pay their debts back or get them written off via bankruptcy it's not the bank who has the most to complain about.

If you give any contact details in the non-apology letters (an apology is for something bad you have done, this is the equivalent of politicians apologising for slavery 200 years ago, except that slavery was actually evil) the lenders will almost certainly try to stick the debt on you.

Again - circumstances can vary on that one. I'd tend to take the viewpoint personally of paying off the debts (even though I wasn't legally liable for them) - if I had the spare money to do so (as I don't believe in people being left owed money due to no fault/choice of theirs). If I didn't - then obviously I couldnt afford to.

Morally it would be far better to donate the money to StepChange or another charity of your choice. Banks and other lenders are commercial enterprises, not charity cases.

They charge interest partially to cover the bad debts of people who die leaving insolvent estates. If they collect interest from the living and get an ex-gratia payment from the relatives of the dead, they have had their cake and ate it.

clearancer said:

Thanks everyone for your help. No idea where the car is. Should my brother phone the police? I’ve had to block my sister on Facebook, she got really nasty when I suggested I put £500 in her bank to pay towards the funeral that I won’t be going to. 

Walk away, not your problem. If there's any value to the car which has gone walkabout it's for the creditors to try and track down if they want to.

Spendless

prowla said:

If it turns out that there is anything in the estate after all, with no will it should be divided between the three siblings.

I have three sons and no will - I want things to go to them equally, so there's no point in writing it down.

Do you have possessions eg jewellery, trinkets, ornaments etc?
I've got a terminally ill relative. She knows she hasn't much longer left. She isn't making a will. She is trying to give away stuff whilst she's alive and it is STILL causing issues. One relative is upset that certain things are going to another relative and not to them, whilst at the same time telling teminal ill relative that they don't want anything.
Write it in a will  who you want to receive what.  

clearancer

Brother asked me to ring round to get a price for direct cremation. The best I could find was £1700. £700 for the cremation. £1000 to get the body to the crematorium with the correct paperwork. Shocked that it costs so much. Brother thought he'd found money in one of dad's accounts, but unfortunately its with Barclays. His wife works for Barclays and dad owes £1000 on a loan. Wife said Barclays will take balance of bank account to pay back loan. Would it be fraud for brother to take dads cash card and withdraw as much as he can over the next few days to pay for cremation? Still waiting for death certificate.

Keep_pedalling

clearancer said:

Brother asked me to ring round to get a price for direct cremation. The best I could find was £1700. £700 for the cremation. £1000 to get the body to the crematorium with the correct paperwork. Shocked that it costs so much. Brother thought he'd found money in one of dad's accounts, but unfortunately its with Barclays. His wife works for Barclays and dad owes £1000 on a loan. Wife said Barclays will take balance of bank account to pay back loan. Would it be fraud for brother to take dads cash card and withdraw as much as he can over the next few days to pay for cremation? Still waiting for death certificate.

Yes, it would be fraud, the bank should be notified of the death, and the accounts frozen.

Aranyani

I'm sure that funeral costs come out of the estate before debts. 

Silvertabby

Aranyani said:

I'm sure that funeral costs come out of the estate before debts. 

Except for a mortgage or secured loan.  In theory the funeral should be paid before any remaining debts - but in a case like this, when there is a debt and savings with the same bank, that bank does have the right to first dibs.