Three siblings, no will, straight to cremation dispute

clearancer

My dad died last week. We fell out years and years ago when I found out I had a sister (he had an affair). My brother is trying to sort out his funeral. My dad is in HUGE amounts of debt. My brother said there are piles of red final demand letters in every drawer of his (rented) bedsit. My brother suggested straight to cremation. Sister is demanding he has a funeral. My brother is the oldest. My mother died years ago. I'm angry that dad has died in debt. I'm angry that dad has not written a will or left any instructions. Am I liable for any debts? Can my brother decide on the funeral because he is the oldest son? 

Robin9

Im my eyes the service at the Crem is a funeral - perhaps your sister is thinking of a church service before cremation. In either case they have severe restrictions on numbers who can attend - 30 max - and a wake afterwards is even more restricted.   What happens needs to be a family decision. 

Torry_Quine

You aren't liable for any debts.   There's no hierachy between siblings based on age. Whoever arranges with the funeral director for a funeral even if a direct cremation would be liable to pay. If he left nothing then if no one arranged anything the local authority would arrange and pay for the funeral.

clearancer

Robin9 said:

Im my eyes the service at the Crem is a funeral - perhaps your sister is thinking of a church service before cremation. In either case they have severe restrictions on numbers who can attend - 30 max - and a wake afterwards is even more restricted.   What happens needs to be a family decision. 

But if there is no money left for the funeral, only debt, then I don't want to pay. Can I be forced to pay?

naedanger

clearancer said:

My dad died last week. We fell out years and years ago when I found out I had a sister (he had an affair). My brother is trying to sort out his funeral. My dad is in HUGE amounts of debt. My brother said there are piles of red final demand letters in every drawer of his (rented) bedsit. My brother suggested straight to cremation. Sister is demanding he has a funeral. My brother is the oldest. My mother died years ago. I'm angry that dad has died in debt. I'm angry that dad has not written a will or left any instructions. Am I liable for any debts? Can my brother decide on the funeral because he is the oldest son? 

You can take nothing to do with the estate, and then you won't be liable for any of its debts. The person who instructs the funeral director is likely to be liable to pay their bill.

I suggest you leave your sister to arrange the funeral but make clear to her that you will not pay anything towards it (assuming that is the what you want), and you might want to warn her that she could well be liable if she instructs the funeral director.

theoretica

Do you know if your father had any money in bank accounts before paying for debts?  I believe reasonable funeral costs can be paid out of the deceased's accounts before thinking about their debts.

In a big way, this isn't about your relationship with your father but about your relationship with your sister.  If you feel that relationship is worth it then you can offer to contribute a set amount as a present to her, if you don't want to you can't be made to.

clearancer

theoretica said:

Do you know if your father had any money in bank accounts before paying for debts?  I believe reasonable funeral costs can be paid out of the deceased's accounts before thinking about their debts.

In a big way, this isn't about your relationship with your father but about your relationship with your sister.  If you feel that relationship is worth it then you can offer to contribute a set amount as a present to her, if you don't want to you can't be made to.

Brother has found only debt. £4,000 credit card bill. £800 overdrawn. Parking ticket. Speeding ticket. £21 in his wallet. Brother cannot find rent book, council tax, water rates, energy bills. He can find no car keys, we wonder if it was repossessed or a "log book loan". 

Brambling

Robin9 said:

Im my eyes the service at the Crem is a funeral - perhaps your sister is thinking of a church service before cremation. In either case they have severe restrictions on numbers who can attend - 30 max - and a wake afterwards is even more restricted.   What happens needs to be a family decision. 

You can have a simple/direct cremation which doesn't include the service / use of their chapel etc I'm not sure what it includes but they can be approx £1000 rather than the average £4000

I'm sorry for your loss even if you didn't speak he was still you dad, in the end it may come down to any relationship you want to have with your sister as she might not forgive you

Savvy_Sue

clearancer said:

Brother has found only debt. £4,000 credit card bill. £800 overdrawn. Parking ticket. Speeding ticket. £21 in his wallet. Brother cannot find rent book, council tax, water rates, energy bills. He can find no car keys, we wonder if it was repossessed or a "log book loan". 

Has he found the car? (realise you may or may not know what he was driving). 

In some ways, the situation is quite simple, especially if you and your brother agree. There is no money, so neither he nor you nor your sister should attempt to administer the estate / apply for letters of administration. Any of you can reply to the 'red letters' or write to the landlord, utility providers etc. State that your father has died, his estate is intestate, and no-one is administering it. Do not give your own contact details. If you don't wish to clear the property, don't. 

If your sister wants to arrange a funeral, she can instruct a funeral director, but SHE WILL BE REQUIRED TO PAY FOR IT. You can make it clear you are not willing to contribute, your brother can make his own decision. 

If no-one arranges the funeral then either the local authority will do so, or the hospital if that is where he died. It will be a simple occasion, you will have no choice about time, but you will - allowing for Covid restrictions - be able to attend if you wish. [NB your sister / you will need to check this because this is what used to happen pre-Covid. It's possible now that these funerals are conducted without allowing family / friends to attend.]

It is possible that the local authority will ask close relatives if they are able to pay, but you can say that you are estranged and do not wish to do so. 

Having said all that, it's worth noting what theoretica said. It's not your sister's fault that your father had an affair. You may not feel that you want a relationship with her, but if she would like one with you this is an opportunity to reach out. 

Just don't attempt to administer the estate, and advise her not to do so either. 

Silvertabby

How old was he?  Could he have some pension rights tucked away?

prowla

If it turns out that there is anything in the estate after all, with no will it should be divided between the three siblings.

I have three sons and no will - I want things to go to them equally, so there's no point in writing it down.