Funding the travel industry

epm-84

Butts said:

epm-84 said:

bagand96 said:

epm-84 said:

bagand96 said:

Flying now is cheaper than it's ever been.

How budget airlines operate is one of the main reasons for the problems.  Customers who booked directly with Ryanair had problems getting refunds of amounts like £50 but what if you're a travel company that booked 500 customers on flights with Ryanair and consequently are owed £25,000?  

Indeed.  You could argue it's a commercial risk of the business model for Online Travel Agents who are pairing low-cost airlines flights with hotels to sell a package.  Since 2018 the law has viewed this arrangement as the same as a package holiday and given the consumer the similar protections.

You're absolutely right abut the unforeseen and completely unprecedented nature of the 2020 Covid-19 problem.  Nobody could have foreseen the virtual complete stop of international aviation for a prolonged period.  Be they an airline, a tour operator, a travel agent, or a consumer. The entire industry just was not prepared for it and ground to a halt on many levels.

There has been some talk in Germany of airline's not receiving funds until a flight is flown, with some groups calling for it.  Whether it could work or not with the way the industry currently works I don't know.

It's not just the online travel agents.  If you look at packages sold by the likes of Newmarket they are priced on Heathrow/Gatwick flights with BA or equivalent but if you want to instead fly from a regional airport they'll put you on whoever operates from the regional airport on the day you want to travel.  That might mean you still get a traditional airline if one operates on the route e.g. Manchester to Lisbon where TAP operate but if it's a Croatia holiday then it'll be Easyjet or Jet2.

In the current climate and with their current policies it makes sense to book a package direct with BA.
Not only do you have the customer promise but also a small deposit and the balance due three weeks before you travel.

Except that BA only fly out of Gatwick and Heathrow (other than domestic connecting flights and franchised flights) so for most people booking with BA means indirect flights or a long drive/train journey to go to an airport a long way from your home.  London and the South East might have a high population but for most of the UK population flying from Heathrow or Gatwick isn't convenient. 

Butts

epm-84 said:

Butts said:

epm-84 said:

bagand96 said:

epm-84 said:

bagand96 said:

Flying now is cheaper than it's ever been.

How budget airlines operate is one of the main reasons for the problems.  Customers who booked directly with Ryanair had problems getting refunds of amounts like £50 but what if you're a travel company that booked 500 customers on flights with Ryanair and consequently are owed £25,000?  

Indeed.  You could argue it's a commercial risk of the business model for Online Travel Agents who are pairing low-cost airlines flights with hotels to sell a package.  Since 2018 the law has viewed this arrangement as the same as a package holiday and given the consumer the similar protections.

You're absolutely right abut the unforeseen and completely unprecedented nature of the 2020 Covid-19 problem.  Nobody could have foreseen the virtual complete stop of international aviation for a prolonged period.  Be they an airline, a tour operator, a travel agent, or a consumer. The entire industry just was not prepared for it and ground to a halt on many levels.

There has been some talk in Germany of airline's not receiving funds until a flight is flown, with some groups calling for it.  Whether it could work or not with the way the industry currently works I don't know.

It's not just the online travel agents.  If you look at packages sold by the likes of Newmarket they are priced on Heathrow/Gatwick flights with BA or equivalent but if you want to instead fly from a regional airport they'll put you on whoever operates from the regional airport on the day you want to travel.  That might mean you still get a traditional airline if one operates on the route e.g. Manchester to Lisbon where TAP operate but if it's a Croatia holiday then it'll be Easyjet or Jet2.

In the current climate and with their current policies it makes sense to book a package direct with BA.
Not only do you have the customer promise but also a small deposit and the balance due three weeks before you travel.

Except that BA only fly out of Gatwick and Heathrow (other than domestic connecting flights and franchised flights) so for most people booking with BA means indirect flights or a long drive/train journey to go to an airport a long way from your home.  London and the South East might have a high population but for most of the UK population flying from Heathrow or Gatwick isn't convenient. 

Well I live in Scotland and it's dead easy to connect to the BA Network from Glasgow ,Edinburgh ,Aberdeen or Inverness directly and a codeshare with Loganair opens up just about every airport in Mainland Scotland and the Islands including Orkney and Shetland.

You do realise it only takes an hour to get from Edinburgh to Heathrow on a plane opening the whole world up.
Jing's it takes longer to get to the Airport than that for a lot of people.

epm-84

Butts said:

epm-84 said:

Butts said:

epm-84 said:

bagand96 said:

epm-84 said:

bagand96 said:

Flying now is cheaper than it's ever been.

How budget airlines operate is one of the main reasons for the problems.  Customers who booked directly with Ryanair had problems getting refunds of amounts like £50 but what if you're a travel company that booked 500 customers on flights with Ryanair and consequently are owed £25,000?  

Indeed.  You could argue it's a commercial risk of the business model for Online Travel Agents who are pairing low-cost airlines flights with hotels to sell a package.  Since 2018 the law has viewed this arrangement as the same as a package holiday and given the consumer the similar protections.

You're absolutely right abut the unforeseen and completely unprecedented nature of the 2020 Covid-19 problem.  Nobody could have foreseen the virtual complete stop of international aviation for a prolonged period.  Be they an airline, a tour operator, a travel agent, or a consumer. The entire industry just was not prepared for it and ground to a halt on many levels.

There has been some talk in Germany of airline's not receiving funds until a flight is flown, with some groups calling for it.  Whether it could work or not with the way the industry currently works I don't know.

It's not just the online travel agents.  If you look at packages sold by the likes of Newmarket they are priced on Heathrow/Gatwick flights with BA or equivalent but if you want to instead fly from a regional airport they'll put you on whoever operates from the regional airport on the day you want to travel.  That might mean you still get a traditional airline if one operates on the route e.g. Manchester to Lisbon where TAP operate but if it's a Croatia holiday then it'll be Easyjet or Jet2.

In the current climate and with their current policies it makes sense to book a package direct with BA.
Not only do you have the customer promise but also a small deposit and the balance due three weeks before you travel.

Except that BA only fly out of Gatwick and Heathrow (other than domestic connecting flights and franchised flights) so for most people booking with BA means indirect flights or a long drive/train journey to go to an airport a long way from your home.  London and the South East might have a high population but for most of the UK population flying from Heathrow or Gatwick isn't convenient. 

Well I live in Scotland and it's dead easy to connect to the BA Network from Glasgow ,Edinburgh ,Aberdeen or Inverness directly and a codeshare with Loganair opens up just about every airport in Mainland Scotland and the Islands including Orkney and Shetland.

You do realise it only takes an hour to get from Edinburgh to Heathrow on a plane opening the whole world up.
Jing's it takes longer to get to the Airport than that for a lot of people.

Flying between two airports which don't have direct flights isn't always quicker or easier.  For instance, Florence Airport has limited flights to the UK so if you're going to Florence you can fuss about with flying from Edinburgh to Florence via London.  Alternatively, you can take a direct flight to Pisa and then get a coach taking 50 minutes to get from Pisa airport to Florence city centre.  

bagand96

Butts said:

In the current climate and with their current policies it makes sense to book a package direct with BA.
Not only do you have the customer promise but also a small deposit and the balance due three weeks before you travel.

Ok.... I've finally broken.  What's with all the flag waving for BA?

Butts

bagand96 said:

Butts said:

In the current climate and with their current policies it makes sense to book a package direct with BA.
Not only do you have the customer promise but also a small deposit and the balance due three weeks before you travel.

Ok.... I've finally broken.  What's with all the flag waving for BA?

Well I had a bad experience with LM.com until I hit them with a chargeback for a cancelled Holiday.

With BA since July I have had ....Albania, Spain and Poland all cancelled but almost automatic refunds thanks to their customer satisfaction program. Still heading (hopefully ) to the home of your three and a half months for a refund Airline and Turkey next month.

Also on The Dibb forum which consists mainly of "Virgin Atlantic" fanatics, have just loved them squirming as BA have been refunding in days what it takes them months to do.

Amazingly 120 Day refunds have not stopped them clamouring to book with Virgin again. Talk about The Emperor Has No Clothes on - it's unbelievable.

bagand96

Butts said:

Well I had a bad experience with LM.com until I hit them with a chargeback for a cancelled Holiday.

With BA since July I have had ....Albania, Spain and Poland all cancelled but almost automatic refunds thanks to their customer satisfaction program. Still heading (hopefully ) to the home of your three and a half months for a refund Airline and Turkey next month.

Also on The Dibb forum which consists mainly of "Virgin Atlantic" fanatics, have just loved them squirming as BA have been refunding in days what it takes them months to do.

Amazingly 120 Day refunds have not stopped them clamouring to book with Virgin again. Talk about The Emperor Has No Clothes on - it's unbelievable.

I understand you’ve had good experiences with the Holidays arm of BA, and that’s great. It’s just that you mention it, ummm, quite often!  The story for BA flight only bookings is far more mixed, and the way they behaved at the start of the pandemic leaves a lot to be desired. 

No company has done exceptionally well to be honest, some are now doing a lot better that others.

epm-84

bagand96 said:

Butts said:

Well I had a bad experience with LM.com until I hit them with a chargeback for a cancelled Holiday.

With BA since July I have had ....Albania, Spain and Poland all cancelled but almost automatic refunds thanks to their customer satisfaction program. Still heading (hopefully ) to the home of your three and a half months for a refund Airline and Turkey next month.

Also on The Dibb forum which consists mainly of "Virgin Atlantic" fanatics, have just loved them squirming as BA have been refunding in days what it takes them months to do.

Amazingly 120 Day refunds have not stopped them clamouring to book with Virgin again. Talk about The Emperor Has No Clothes on - it's unbelievable.

The story for BA flight only bookings is far more mixed, and the way they behaved at the start of the pandemic leaves a lot to be desired. 

Indeed.  BBC reporting this morning that BA customers have received emails saying their flights have been cancelled with a button to click to claim a refund and if you click that button you're taken to a page saying they will be sending you a travel voucher shortly.  It doesn't sound like some BA customers are having it any easier than Ryanair customers.

Butts

bagand96 said:

Butts said:

Well I had a bad experience with LM.com until I hit them with a chargeback for a cancelled Holiday.

With BA since July I have had ....Albania, Spain and Poland all cancelled but almost automatic refunds thanks to their customer satisfaction program. Still heading (hopefully ) to the home of your three and a half months for a refund Airline and Turkey next month.

Also on The Dibb forum which consists mainly of "Virgin Atlantic" fanatics, have just loved them squirming as BA have been refunding in days what it takes them months to do.

Amazingly 120 Day refunds have not stopped them clamouring to book with Virgin again. Talk about The Emperor Has No Clothes on - it's unbelievable.

I understand you’ve had good experiences with the Holidays arm of BA, and that’s great. It’s just that you mention it, ummm, quite often!  The story for BA flight only bookings is far more mixed, and the way they behaved at the start of the pandemic leaves a lot to be desired. 

No company has done exceptionally well to be honest, some are now doing a lot better that others.

I have had experience of a Flights Only booking with BA as well, I was supposed to be going to Luxembourg (booked before they landed on the "naughty list) and that was refunded without question when the FCO "ban" was applied to The Grand Duchy.

The key mantra at the moment is to book a hotel or car as well to turn it into a package which affords far greater protection. Also do a little research and find out exactly what your legal position is and or the providers guarantees if any.  

Butts

epm-84 said:

bagand96 said:

Butts said:

Well I had a bad experience with LM.com until I hit them with a chargeback for a cancelled Holiday.

With BA since July I have had ....Albania, Spain and Poland all cancelled but almost automatic refunds thanks to their customer satisfaction program. Still heading (hopefully ) to the home of your three and a half months for a refund Airline and Turkey next month.

Also on The Dibb forum which consists mainly of "Virgin Atlantic" fanatics, have just loved them squirming as BA have been refunding in days what it takes them months to do.

Amazingly 120 Day refunds have not stopped them clamouring to book with Virgin again. Talk about The Emperor Has No Clothes on - it's unbelievable.

The story for BA flight only bookings is far more mixed, and the way they behaved at the start of the pandemic leaves a lot to be desired. 

Indeed.  BBC reporting this morning that BA customers have received emails saying their flights have been cancelled with a button to click to claim a refund and if you click that button you're taken to a page saying they will be sending you a travel voucher shortly.  It doesn't sound like some BA customers are having it any easier than Ryanair customers.

If you "click the button" the voucher will arrive a lot quicker than a lot of providers. Not all BA bookings are eligible for a cash refund.

If you have mistakenly applied for a voucher online rather than ringing up for a cash refund when entitled to one that is down to customer error and not reading the information supplied. It is all there in black and white.

For example I had flights to Poland (part of a package ) cancelled and didn't bother ringing for a refund as it was only a £150 deposit. The voucher arrived the next day and I am going to use it to knock off the balance for a trip to Italy in December. The process is simple quick and painless.

davelewis

I worked for a cruise agent for a short period. The mark ups and profit per booking were exceptionally low. They relied on volume and then upselling. Unfortunately it's the name of the game in travel - hook consumers in with a cheap lead in price and then upsell. We've only got ourselves to blame as consumers demanding rock bottom prices.