Mistake on title plan when buying property

S_A_Hall

Hi there, 

Myself and my partner are in the process of buying our first house together. We had on offer accepted on a property in May, we have our mortgage offer, which is valid until mid-November, and we've been going through the conveyancing process. 

However, we noticed (around 3 months ago) that half of the property, which includes the bedrooms, bathroom, study and living room, isn't within the boundary defined for the property on the land registry title plan. The boundary cuts the house in half, effectively. We raised this with our conveyancer who raised it with the seller, but we have had no update on this in the past 3 months. We really just want to understand the process/timeframes for correcting the mistake on the boundary as our mortgage offer could run out before the issue is rectified. We think it could be complicated as it's not a detached property, the property adjoins another property and the missing bit is (from what we can see) either unregistered or registered incorrectly as part of next door's property. The couple who owned and lived in the property did so for over 50 years and when they passed away left it to their sons who are now selling it to us, so there shouldn't be any sort of dispute with next door, but we just haven't been given any information by our solicitor despite having been asking for clarification for months.

We're really not sure what to do. This is a dream property for us, not just a transaction, and we'd hate to lose it. Does anyone know what the process/timescales might be for rectifying the plan? Or how I can get my conveyancers to push for progress/give us options?

Any help or advice would be much appreciated as we just feel helpless at the moment.

theoretica

A starting point would be to get next door's title plan from the land registry and see if they have the missing bit or if it is registered as a third property.

S_A_Hall

theoretica said:

A starting point would be to get next door's title plan from the land registry and see if they have the missing bit or if it is registered as a third property.

Thank you! We have thought about doing that but didn't know if we should be paying to do so when it's up to the sellers to rectify (and we don't know what's already been done as we're getting no updates) but it could be good just for our own peace of mind. If it's not registered as belonging to next door might that make it easier? 

SMR710

Its only about £3 I think to purchase the title plan 

davidmcn

S_A_Hall said:

theoretica said:

A starting point would be to get next door's title plan from the land registry and see if they have the missing bit or if it is registered as a third property.

Thank you! We have thought about doing that but didn't know if we should be paying to do so when it's up to the sellers to rectify (and we don't know what's already been done as we're getting no updates) but it could be good just for our own peace of mind. If it's not registered as belonging to next door might that make it easier? 

If you're genuinely getting no response from your solicitor then that's cause for complaint - you should have details of the complaints partner in the firm. It may be that they cannot actually progress matters materially, but they should at least be telling you what the current position is. Checking for a registered title is the sort of thing which takes minutes, not months.

Beyond that, we're in "length of string" territory - it could be owned by the vendors but under another title, it could be owned by somebody who can't be traced, it could be owned by somebody who demands a vast price to hand it over or simply refuses to cooperate.

S_A_Hall

Thank you for all your swift responses! I did a quick look on the website to request the title plan for next door and it says that they don't have a record of a title plan registered for that property. My partner has access to the land registry map and checked to see if next door was registered on there and it looks like it isn't.

I don't understand how it works but surely it would just require the vendor to contact the Land Registry and ask for the boundary to be changed? I'm not sure what counts as evidence in this instance but the fact that the boundary cuts through an open-plan living/dining area that has been lived in by the vendor's parents for 50 years should be evidence enough that it's incorrect. 

S_A_Hall

S_A_Hall said:

Thank you for all your swift responses! I did a quick look on the website to request the title plan for next door and it says that they don't have a record of a title plan registered for that property. My partner has access to the land registry map and checked to see if next door was registered on there and it looks like it isn't.

I don't understand how it works but surely it would just require the vendor to contact the Land Registry and ask for the boundary to be changed? I'm not sure what counts as evidence in this instance but the fact that the boundary cuts through an open-plan living/dining area that has been lived in by the vendor's parents for 50 years should be evidence enough that it's incorrect. 

I should clarify, on the map it shows the bit of the property that we're purchasing that is missing as unregistered, along with the whole of next door's property. 

AdrianC

The title plan IS what you're buying. End of.

What you think you're buying from what you see on the ground may differ.

If there's a really marked difference, it might be that there's another title - perhaps it used to be two properties, still  on separate titles?

S_A_Hall said:

S_A_Hall said:

Thank you for all your swift responses! I did a quick look on the website to request the title plan for next door and it says that they don't have a record of a title plan registered for that property. My partner has access to the land registry map and checked to see if next door was registered on there and it looks like it isn't.

I don't understand how it works but surely it would just require the vendor to contact the Land Registry and ask for the boundary to be changed? I'm not sure what counts as evidence in this instance but the fact that the boundary cuts through an open-plan living/dining area that has been lived in by the vendor's parents for 50 years should be evidence enough that it's incorrect. 

I should clarify, on the map it shows the bit of the property that we're purchasing that is missing as unregistered, along with the whole of next door's property.

...and there y'go.

You're buying two titles. One is registered, the other is unregistered. They should be able to provide the deeds for the unregistered portion. Whether you push for them to register pre-exchange is up to you.
Pro - certainty.
Con - delay.

S_A_Hall

AdrianC said:

The title plan IS what you're buying. End of.

What you think you're buying from what you see on the ground may differ.

If there's a really marked difference, it might be that there's another title - perhaps it used to be two properties, still  on separate titles?

S_A_Hall said:

S_A_Hall said:

Thank you for all your swift responses! I did a quick look on the website to request the title plan for next door and it says that they don't have a record of a title plan registered for that property. My partner has access to the land registry map and checked to see if next door was registered on there and it looks like it isn't.

I don't understand how it works but surely it would just require the vendor to contact the Land Registry and ask for the boundary to be changed? I'm not sure what counts as evidence in this instance but the fact that the boundary cuts through an open-plan living/dining area that has been lived in by the vendor's parents for 50 years should be evidence enough that it's incorrect. 

I should clarify, on the map it shows the bit of the property that we're purchasing that is missing as unregistered, along with the whole of next door's property.

...and there y'go.

You're buying two titles. One is registered, the other is unregistered. They should be able to provide the deeds for the unregistered portion. Whether you push for them to register pre-exchange is up to you.
Pro - certainty.
Con - delay.

Thank you, this is the kind of advice/clarification I was hoping to hear from our solicitors but to no avail.

I think we will probably need them to register it for our mortgage, unless the deeds for the unregistered section are enough (which I guess it something our solicitor needs to request from the vendor).

My worry now is that they don't have the deeds for the unregistered part of the property, which would be very strange as this is the part of the property the vendor's parents bought many many years ago and the bit which is actually registered is the extension and garden.

Thank you for your help. 

AdrianC

S_A_Hall said:

I think we will probably need them to register it for our mortgage, unless the deeds for the unregistered section are enough (which I guess it something our solicitor needs to request from the vendor).

My worry now is that they don't have the deeds for the unregistered part of the property, which would be very strange as this is the part of the property the vendor's parents bought many many years ago and the bit which is actually registered is the extension and garden.

Registration is legally required (and has been for ~30yrs) on change of ownership. The question is whether your sol does it after the purchase, or whether they do it before.

The paper deeds were the old proof of ownership, now replaced by an electronic record at the LR. Why is one half registered, the other not? <shrug> Perhaps the fact it's the extension and garden is the answer... Perhaps that was bought in later?

Have they lost a piece of paper in 50yrs...? It's not exactly unheard of...

S_A_Hall

AdrianC said:

S_A_Hall said:

I think we will probably need them to register it for our mortgage, unless the deeds for the unregistered section are enough (which I guess it something our solicitor needs to request from the vendor).

My worry now is that they don't have the deeds for the unregistered part of the property, which would be very strange as this is the part of the property the vendor's parents bought many many years ago and the bit which is actually registered is the extension and garden.

Registration is legally required (and has been for ~30yrs) on change of ownership. The question is whether your sol does it after the purchase, or whether they do it before.

The paper deeds were the old proof of ownership, now replaced by an electronic record at the LR. Why is one half registered, the other not? <shrug> Perhaps the fact it's the extension and garden is the answer... Perhaps that was bought in later?

Have they lost a piece of paper in 50yrs...? It's not exactly unheard of...

If they can supply proof of ownership of the unregistered bit and our mortgage company accepted that then the only thing really that we would have to think about would be the cost of registering it ourselves (but is probably worth it rather than delay and our mortgage offer expires and we lose the money we've spent so far). 

It's just very odd that the kitchen, the extension that they built afterwards and the garden is registered but the actual main part of the house isn't. It doesn't really matter, as long as they can prove they own all of it.

If they have lost the deeds then that's where I'm not sure what happens as surely they don't have the legal right to sell it and our mortgage & survey is based on the whole property, not just the registered part.