Cracks in pebble dashing - flagged as possible subsidence

skm1981

We have sold our house (in the process) and the buyer arranged for a homebuyer survey, which has come back with the dreaded words of potential subsidence.  The cracks were there when we moved in 15 years ago, our survey at the time said that there were signs of previous movement, but nothing to suggest this is ongoing.  We've not noticed the cracks getting worse, no issues inside the house like sloping floors, doors/windows sticking or slanting, although we do have some hairline cracks in random places in the plaster, but the plastering in these houses is terrible anyway and we had the house replastered when we moved in which was 15 years ago.  Just to add, the pebble dashing was done in probably the late 60s, early 70s.  This was my grandad's house before mine, and he was the one who decided to cement the cracks.  Our house is a 1930s semi.

I just wondered if anyone has any experience of cracks to render and if these do look like subsidence?  Hoping these links work, otherwise a bit of a pointless post!

https://ibb.co/mC0Tdtn

https://ibb.co/89jhqB7

https://ibb.co/xSVqjSd

https://ibb.co/Tg7Gbn5

https://ibb.co/41tZWpH

FreeBear

Those cracks look more like historical settlement - 1930s builds often have foundations that wouldn't come close to meeting current building regulations. That's not to say that they are substandard, but any settlement in the ground would show up as minor cracks in any render.

Had you been staying in the property, I would have recommended filling the cracks with a cement based grout (not tile grout) and painting. Also clean out the air vent in the first picture to improve under-floor ventilation.

skm1981

Thank you, that's really helpful.  I'll take a look at the vent as well!

daveyjp

Looks like a typical expansion crack which is often found in render applied to a property which wasn't originally designed for it.

stuart45

As above, shrinkage cracks in cement render are quite common. The frames are the weak spots and the crack looks to be even in width all the way. You need to check whether it goes through the masonry.

skm1981

stuart45 said:

As above, shrinkage cracks in cement render are quite common. The frames are the weak spots and the crack looks to be even in width all the way. You need to check whether it goes through the masonry.

Thank you.  Do you think a structural engineer would be able to tell if they go through to the brick without hacking off the pebble dashing or would they need to take some off check?

rob7475

Did the buyer mention anything about the cracks when they looked at the house? If I were buying it, I'd be factoring the cost of rendering / pebbledashing when making an offer which they may have done. A structural engineer (which the buyer should be paying for) will probably need to remove a bit to make sure the damage doesn't continue into the brickwork underneath. If the buyer is planning to replace it anyway, it shouldn't be an issue.

If they arrange a structural engineer, make sure he / she is independent rather than getting someone from a building company etc to do a 'free survey'

skm1981

Well this is the thing, they must have noticed the cracks as my grandad decided to make a feature out of them by cementing them in grey haha.  But I feel like they are pretty noticeable because of that.  The offer they made I feel was definitely on the low side, so assuming the house isn't subsiding, judging by recent sold prices in my area, I think they've got a very good deal.

The thing is both me and my buyer have pretty useless solicitors who don't seem to want to do anything outside of the norm so my estate agent has essentially been the go between.  He has said that it's usual for a buyer to pay for the homebuyer survey, but then when issues come up like this, it is usually down to the seller to prove that the building is sound.  My response to that was that it's not down to me to prove that, and that's why the buyer should have had a full survey done rather than just the homebuyer one, that's the risk that they took.  

So basically our buyers are currently saying we pay for the survey and my estate agent doesn't think they will budge.  He is of the view (obviously he wants his sale) that if we don't pay for the structural survey, the buyer will probably pull out and I'll have to go through this whole thing again when we re-sell.

stuart45

Normally if there is a foundation problem like subsidence or heave the cracks will be wider at the top or bottom, depending on which way the building going. The cracking will normally go through the DPC level to the substructure as well. Modern houses have movements in longer flank walls to help prevent these cracks. 

rob7475

skm1981 said:

Well this is the thing, they must have noticed the cracks as my grandad decided to make a feature out of them by cementing them in grey haha.  But I feel like they are pretty noticeable because of that.  The offer they made I feel was definitely on the low side, so assuming the house isn't subsiding, judging by recent sold prices in my area, I think they've got a very good deal.

The thing is both me and my buyer have pretty useless solicitors who don't seem to want to do anything outside of the norm so my estate agent has essentially been the go between.  He has said that it's usual for a buyer to pay for the homebuyer survey, but then when issues come up like this, it is usually down to the seller to prove that the building is sound.  My response to that was that it's not down to me to prove that, and that's why the buyer should have had a full survey done rather than just the homebuyer one, that's the risk that they took.  

So basically our buyers are currently saying we pay for the survey and my estate agent doesn't think they will budge.  He is of the view (obviously he wants his sale) that if we don't pay for the structural survey, the buyer will probably pull out and I'll have to go through this whole thing again when we re-sell.

It's really down to the buyer to pay for any extra surveys required by their mortgage provider. However, I get your point about not wanting the sale to fall through. Speak to some local structural engineers (not builders) to get a quote for a written survey. It's probably going to cost £3-400. If it stops the sale falling through, it may be worth you paying for it. However, if your buyer thinks they can push you on this, they may try and squeeze the price down if the engineer recommends re-rendering etc.


I went through the same on a house I was buying around 10 years ago. Homebuyer report flagged up some cracks in the walls that I'd already spotted. My mortgage company wouldn't lend until they'd been checked out by an engineer though. I didn't contemplate asking the seller to pay for the report - I'd already knocked a good chunk off the price of the house to cover the repairs needed so it seemed a bit cheeky to try and get them to pay for that too.

skm1981

Thanks. I went back to the estate agent and said I'd go halves on the survey or we would reduce the asking price by the survey amount, that way, I don't have to pay for a survey if they do decide to pull out.  I'm still yet to hear back from them.  If they do decide to pull out, we're just going to take the house off the market, have the house rendered and a new kitchen put in (which does need doing), and hopefully we'll get more when we put it back on.