Does this look like subsidence?

julesldn

Hi all,
We are purchasing a Victorian 2 bed end of terrace house in London and we have noticed a crack above the front living room bay window. Does this look like evidence of subsidence to you? Pics attached!
Thanks,
Julia 

DayDreamerandGeneralWaster

It looks like the lintel needs to be repaired or replaced. Whether it's from subsistence or not, l don't know.

Slithery

Did it use to have metal window frames which have been replaced with UPVC without the correct additional support being added?

AdrianC

No, not subsidence. Just a poor window replacement.

They've replaced old windows that were structurally supporting the brickwork with tupperware ones that aren't.

daveyjp

Thats what happens when you fit a square window into an arch and fill the gap with what is probably foam behind that filler piece.

julesldn

AdrianC said:

No, not subsidence. Just a poor window replacement.

They've replaced old windows that were structurally supporting the brickwork with tupperware ones that aren't.

Thanks for the advice. The surveyor didn't mention this crack on our Homebuyers survey which is really surprising. We're planning to do a lot of interior work to the house when we complete, would you suggest this crack can wait or does the lintel need replacing/repairing ASAP? 

For context, the house is in an area of moderate-high subsidence risk according to the local searches. Built on clay in London so what can we expect.... but the surveyor did not mention any signs of actual subsidence.

daveyjp said:

Thats what happens when you fit a square window into an arch and fill the gap with what is probably foam behind that filler piece.

Thanks yes it does look a bit strange. Do you think this would be a costly issue to resolve?

Hannimal

If you are on a moderate-high subsidence risk area you might want to consider a full survey. You could find a local surveyor who can do this on a tight schedule. 

FreeBear

The window looks to be set back by the width of a full brick, so it is unlikely that the original window would have been providing any support. The arching soldier course should be self supporting, but clearly, something has moved. Is there any cracking on the internal walls above the window ?

How about other properties in the neighbourhood - Do they show signs of cracking in the same area ?

In terms of repair, it looks like a bay window, so the cost shouldn't be astronomical. The brickwork above the window would need to be removed. A steel inserted (you can probably get away with something fairly lightweight), and then the brickwork carefully reinstated. Ideally, you want a supporting steel that has been rolled to a matching radius of the arch. Someone like JMR might be able to roll a steel for you. A small jobbing builder for the brickwork. Budget £2K, and if you are lucky, it should come in at £500-£1000 accounting for London rates. Have the work done before doing any internal work just in case more extensive repairs are needed.

I had budgeted £300 for a lintel when having a new window fitted (well outside London). We hit lucky, and it was very quick & easy to install, so came in well under budget.

stuart45

Segmental arches on bay windows do sometimes fail as the abutments either side are usually a bit small for this kind of arch.

stuart45

JMR isn't coming up, but this gives you an idea of it.
https://catnic.com/products/lintels/special-lintels/segmental-arch
Some people just bang a bit of slate into the joint and point it over. Bit of a bodge but I have seen it last for years.

julesldn

FreeBear said:

The window looks to be set back by the width of a full brick, so it is unlikely that the original window would have been providing any support. The arching soldier course should be self supporting, but clearly, something has moved. Is there any cracking on the internal walls above the window ?

How about other properties in the neighbourhood - Do they show signs of cracking in the same area ?

In terms of repair, it looks like a bay window, so the cost shouldn't be astronomical. The brickwork above the window would need to be removed. A steel inserted (you can probably get away with something fairly lightweight), and then the brickwork carefully reinstated. Ideally, you want a supporting steel that has been rolled to a matching radius of the arch. Someone like JMR might be able to roll a steel for you. A small jobbing builder for the brickwork. Budget £2K, and if you are lucky, it should come in at £500-£1000 accounting for London rates. Have the work done before doing any internal work just in case more extensive repairs are needed.

I had budgeted £300 for a lintel when having a new window fitted (well outside London). We hit lucky, and it was very quick & easy to install, so came in well under budget.

Thanks we had a look at the other properties on the street. None of them have a crack in the same place. Having said that all of the houses on the street have had noticably more recent external decoration compared to this property.

Below is what the window looks like from the inside - we'd have to go back for another viewing to inspect more closely for any hairline cracks.

I'm just confused why this never came up on the homebuyers survey? We are meant to exchange at the end of this week so we went for one final viewing yesterday and noticed this crack. Would you suggest we need a structural engineer to look around and delay exchange?