AXS gig tickets sold before being rescheduled.

JoeBloggz00

Hello, I was looking for some advice pls. 
I purchased tickets for a gig at the 02 in February 2020, sold the tickets in April 2020 using the AXS resale option but was told I cannot have a refund until 7 days AFTER the gig had taken place. They then rescheduled the gig again to now October 2021, and are still telling me I cannot have a refund until after the gig even though they have £120 of my money and £120 of the new buyers money. They say I cannot have a refund until after due to "fraud protection checks" but this sounds very unfair to me. They said I am bound by their T&Cs but they do not state anything about reselling and rescheduling that I can see. 

Aylesbury_Duck

JoeBloggz00 said:

Hello, I was looking for some advice pls. 
I purchased tickets for a gig at the 02 in February 2020, sold the tickets in April 2020 using the AXS resale option but was told I cannot have a refund until 7 days AFTER the gig had taken place. They then rescheduled the gig again to now October 2021, and are still telling me I cannot have a refund until after the gig even though they have £120 of my money and £120 of the new buyers money. They say I cannot have a refund until after due to "fraud protection checks" but this sounds very unfair to me. They said I am bound by their T&Cs but they do not state anything about reselling and rescheduling that I can see. 

Seems perfectly fair to me.  A quick check on their site suggests it's in accordance with their policy - I found it in less than a minute and I've never visited before.  I imagine the policy is to protect them against any comeback from the new purchaser of the tickets.  In some cases when people use touting organisations, tickets weren't transferable in the first place.  The new owners then find themselves barred entry on the day when they can't provide ID or the payment card details.  That person might reasonably want their money back, hence why the re-selling company holds the funds.

Have you checked the tickets were allowed to be sold on in the first place?

JoeBloggz00

I know their terms are stated on the site, but if the gig is rescheduled after you've sold then your money is tied up with them until the gig takes place. If it gets rescheduled again then they just get to keep hold of ticket money x 2 for as long as they want? It seems very unfair to me and the terms I agreed to when selling the tickets become invalid when they then reschedule for a whole year due to a pandemic, surely? Yes, the tickets were sold via the AXS resale service which is all very legit and above board on their site. But like I said, I sold before they rescheduled on the basis that I would receive a refund October 2020, not October 2021. 

Aylesbury_Duck

JoeBloggz00 said:

I know their terms are stated on the site, but if the gig is rescheduled after you've sold then your money is tied up with them until the gig takes place. If it gets rescheduled again then they just get to keep hold of ticket money x 2 for as long as they want? It seems very unfair to me and the terms I agreed to when selling the tickets become invalid when they then reschedule for a whole year due to a pandemic, surely? Yes, the tickets were sold via the AXS resale service which is all very legit and above board on their site. But like I said, I sold before they rescheduled on the basis that I would receive a refund October 2020, not October 2021. 

I don't think the terms become invalid when they reschedule.  If they did, they'd simply reverse the transaction and give you the tickets back.  You'd be worse off than you are now, with no money and having to find a buyer for the tickets.

I can't understand why you think it's unfair.  The logic behind holding the money for 10 days after the gig stands.  If the gig is postponed for a year, that logic still stands.  Put yourself in their shoes: would you hand the money back knowing that if there's a problem for the new buyer a year from now, the money's long gone?

JoeBloggz00

I wouldn't really be worse off, would I? I would just sell them again at some point but also be the owner of a pair of tickets. At the moment I have no tickets and no refund. Really? It's unfair as they get to hold my money for an unknown amount of time as well as the new purchasers and I have no control over when I receive my refund now, if it were to be cancelled again. No I wouldn't, but to make it fair, surely I should have been notified when the gig was rescheduled, notified that they would be holding on to my money for yet another 13 months, and/or given the option to cancel the sale at that point and request a full refund, which would be in my account in 7 days. I requested to cancel another gig with them and got paid out instantly. It's unfair as I would not chosen to sell had I known they would reschedule a month later. It's unfair that I had to be told I would not be getting my money in 3 weeks (as expected) by looking online to see it had been rescheduled. I am baffled as to how you think it is fair treatment. 

Aylesbury_Duck

JoeBloggz00 said:

I wouldn't really be worse off, would I? I would just sell them again at some point but also be the owner of a pair of tickets. 

Which are for a gig you don't wish to attend.

JoeBloggz00 said:

No I wouldn't, but to make it fair, surely I should have been notified when the gig was rescheduled, notified that they would be holding on to my money for yet another 13 months, and/or given the option to cancel the sale at that point and request a full refund, which would be in my account in 7 days. 

If that was in the terms and conditions you agreed to and they haven't done so, then yes I agree it's unfair.  Is it?

JoeBloggz00 said:

I requested to cancel another gig with them and got paid out instantly. 

That sounds like a different transaction, though.  You bought, you cancelled, you got refunded.  That's not the same as you bought, you sold on and have to wait for the agreed 10 days after the gig takes place.

JoeBloggz00 said:

It's unfair as I would not chosen to sell had I known they would reschedule a month later. It's unfair that I had to be told I would not be getting my money in 3 weeks (as expected) by looking online to see it had been rescheduled. I am baffled as to how you think it is fair treatment. 

The rescheduling is not your fault, but neither is it theirs.  Again, I go back to the terms you agreed to when you sold your tickets.  From your account, I see nothing they've done that contravenes those terms.  If you hadn't sold the tickets you'd be now sat with £120 worth of tickets but no actual money and unknown prospects of selling them.  The only difference now is that you don't physically hold the pieces of paper but you do have a contract to be paid 10 days after the gig takes place, hence you're in a better position.

If you still had the tickets, how quickly do you think you'd get your hands on £120 for them otherwise?

photome

Aylesbury_Duck said:

JoeBloggz00 said:

I wouldn't really be worse off, would I? I would just sell them again at some point but also be the owner of a pair of tickets. 

Which are for a gig you don't wish to attend.

JoeBloggz00 said:

No I wouldn't, but to make it fair, surely I should have been notified when the gig was rescheduled, notified that they would be holding on to my money for yet another 13 months, and/or given the option to cancel the sale at that point and request a full refund, which would be in my account in 7 days. 

If that was in the terms and conditions you agreed to and they haven't done so, then yes I agree it's unfair.  Is it?

JoeBloggz00 said:

I requested to cancel another gig with them and got paid out instantly. 

That sounds like a different transaction, though.  You bought, you cancelled, you got refunded.  That's not the same as you bought, you sold on and have to wait for the agreed 10 days after the gig takes place.

JoeBloggz00 said:

It's unfair as I would not chosen to sell had I known they would reschedule a month later. It's unfair that I had to be told I would not be getting my money in 3 weeks (as expected) by looking online to see it had been rescheduled. I am baffled as to how you think it is fair treatment. 

The rescheduling is not your fault, but neither is it theirs.  Again, I go back to the terms you agreed to when you sold your tickets.  From your account, I see nothing they've done that contravenes those terms.  If you hadn't sold the tickets you'd be now sat with £120 worth of tickets but no actual money and unknown prospects of selling them.  The only difference now is that you don't physically hold the pieces of paper but you do have a contract to be paid 10 days after the gig takes place, hence you're in a better position.

If you still had the tickets, how quickly do you think you'd get your hands on £120 for them otherwise?

I agree with most of what you are saying re their terms

From the OPs position the mistake they made was reselling them, if they hadnt resold them , its possible they could have had a refund by now

JoeBloggz00

Aylesbury_Duck said:

JoeBloggz00 said:

I wouldn't really be worse off, would I? I would just sell them again at some point but also be the owner of a pair of tickets. 

Which are for a gig you don't wish to attend.

JoeBloggz00 said:

No I wouldn't, but to make it fair, surely I should have been notified when the gig was rescheduled, notified that they would be holding on to my money for yet another 13 months, and/or given the option to cancel the sale at that point and request a full refund, which would be in my account in 7 days. 

If that was in the terms and conditions you agreed to and they haven't done so, then yes I agree it's unfair.  Is it?\

JoeBloggz00 said:

I requested to cancel another gig with them and got paid out instantly. 

That sounds like a different transaction, though.  You bought, you cancelled, you got refunded.  That's not the same as you bought, you sold on and have to wait for the agreed 10 days after the gig takes place.

JoeBloggz00 said:

It's unfair as I would not chosen to sell had I known they would reschedule a month later. It's unfair that I had to be told I would not be getting my money in 3 weeks (as expected) by looking online to see it had been rescheduled. I am baffled as to how you think it is fair treatment. 

The rescheduling is not your fault, but neither is it theirs.  Again, I go back to the terms you agreed to when you sold your tickets.  From your account, I see nothing they've done that contravenes those terms.  If you hadn't sold the tickets you'd be now sat with £120 worth of tickets but no actual money and unknown prospects of selling them.  The only difference now is that you don't physically hold the pieces of paper but you do have a contract to be paid 10 days after the gig takes place, hence you're in a better position.

If you still had the tickets, how quickly do you think you'd get your hands on £120 for them otherwise?

So I would just sell them elsewhere and with a company that doesn't have ludicrous selling terms

Of course, but I also don't want my money tied up for 17 months after selling!
Nope. None of that was in the terms or offered. I've had zero communication since I sold them in April. 
Of course but I would do the same with this set had I not sold them and I only sold them as they told me the gig was still going ahead. 
I agree, but like I said, given the situation and the fact that this is all very new for everyone, why am I bound to terms which were prior to my sale and before they decided to postpone. Like I said, I should have been contacted and asked if I still wished to sell or at least be told of the postponement and delay of funds, given I was expecting the money in October this year. 

A few days if I decided to sell with Viagogo etc. 

Sorry but I'm not here for an argument, I just wanted some advise as to where I stand legally, not morally

Aylesbury_Duck

photome said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

JoeBloggz00 said:

I wouldn't really be worse off, would I? I would just sell them again at some point but also be the owner of a pair of tickets. 

Which are for a gig you don't wish to attend.

JoeBloggz00 said:

No I wouldn't, but to make it fair, surely I should have been notified when the gig was rescheduled, notified that they would be holding on to my money for yet another 13 months, and/or given the option to cancel the sale at that point and request a full refund, which would be in my account in 7 days. 

If that was in the terms and conditions you agreed to and they haven't done so, then yes I agree it's unfair.  Is it?

JoeBloggz00 said:

I requested to cancel another gig with them and got paid out instantly. 

That sounds like a different transaction, though.  You bought, you cancelled, you got refunded.  That's not the same as you bought, you sold on and have to wait for the agreed 10 days after the gig takes place.

JoeBloggz00 said:

It's unfair as I would not chosen to sell had I known they would reschedule a month later. It's unfair that I had to be told I would not be getting my money in 3 weeks (as expected) by looking online to see it had been rescheduled. I am baffled as to how you think it is fair treatment. 

The rescheduling is not your fault, but neither is it theirs.  Again, I go back to the terms you agreed to when you sold your tickets.  From your account, I see nothing they've done that contravenes those terms.  If you hadn't sold the tickets you'd be now sat with £120 worth of tickets but no actual money and unknown prospects of selling them.  The only difference now is that you don't physically hold the pieces of paper but you do have a contract to be paid 10 days after the gig takes place, hence you're in a better position.

If you still had the tickets, how quickly do you think you'd get your hands on £120 for them otherwise?

I agree with most of what you are saying re their terms

From the OPs position the mistake they made was reselling them, if they hadnt resold them , its possible they could have had a refund by now

That's true.  OP, can you reverse the transaction now, or is it too late?

JoeBloggz00

Exactly that, @photome . I sold them in good faith thinking I would get the money this year and if I had known it would be rescheduled, I would have course just requested a refund and had the money months ago, same as the other gigs I got refunded with them. No, they won't allow me to reverse the sale now either. 

Aylesbury_Duck

JoeBloggz00 said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

JoeBloggz00 said:

I wouldn't really be worse off, would I? I would just sell them again at some point but also be the owner of a pair of tickets. 

Which are for a gig you don't wish to attend.

JoeBloggz00 said:

No I wouldn't, but to make it fair, surely I should have been notified when the gig was rescheduled, notified that they would be holding on to my money for yet another 13 months, and/or given the option to cancel the sale at that point and request a full refund, which would be in my account in 7 days. 

If that was in the terms and conditions you agreed to and they haven't done so, then yes I agree it's unfair.  Is it?\

JoeBloggz00 said:

I requested to cancel another gig with them and got paid out instantly. 

That sounds like a different transaction, though.  You bought, you cancelled, you got refunded.  That's not the same as you bought, you sold on and have to wait for the agreed 10 days after the gig takes place.

JoeBloggz00 said:

It's unfair as I would not chosen to sell had I known they would reschedule a month later. It's unfair that I had to be told I would not be getting my money in 3 weeks (as expected) by looking online to see it had been rescheduled. I am baffled as to how you think it is fair treatment. 

The rescheduling is not your fault, but neither is it theirs.  Again, I go back to the terms you agreed to when you sold your tickets.  From your account, I see nothing they've done that contravenes those terms.  If you hadn't sold the tickets you'd be now sat with £120 worth of tickets but no actual money and unknown prospects of selling them.  The only difference now is that you don't physically hold the pieces of paper but you do have a contract to be paid 10 days after the gig takes place, hence you're in a better position.

If you still had the tickets, how quickly do you think you'd get your hands on £120 for them otherwise?

So I would just sell them elsewhere and with a company that doesn't have ludicrous selling terms

Of course, but I also don't want my money tied up for 17 months after selling!
Nope. None of that was in the terms or offered. I've had zero communication since I sold them in April. 
Of course but I would do the same with this set had I not sold them and I only sold them as they told me the gig was still going ahead. 
I agree, but like I said, given the situation and the fact that this is all very new for everyone, why am I bound to terms which were prior to my sale and before they decided to postpone. Like I said, I should have been contacted and asked if I still wished to sell or at least be told of the postponement and delay of funds, given I was expecting the money in October this year. 

A few days if I decided to sell with Viagogo etc. 

Sorry but I'm not here for an argument, I just wanted some advise as to where I stand legally, not morally

Well legally, I don't think you stand where you'd like to be. You sold the tickets, their terms are that they hold the proceeds until 10 days after the event has happened, and that's what they're doing. I suspect they didn't agree to send you the proceeds 10 days after the original date.  

Morally I see no difference, because of the possibility that the new buyer may encounter problems on the day of the event.