First Steps to Solvency

ryanm8655

oatmealandraisin said:

Hope you don’t take this the wrong way, just looking to offer a different perspective and maybe some food for thought. I’ve read a lot of your diary (although I didn’t get to the very end) and I’m struck by a few things. Now hear me out here, but do you know much about Buddhism? I’m not suggesting you convert, shave your head and join a monastery, but I think it might help you to read one or two introductory books on Buddhist philosophy. One of the main themes is that we cause ourselves suffering through “craving and aversion”. Your craving for consumer status symbols and aversion to people’s reactions if you don’t have them “I’ll put my private plate on the Jag so no-one knows it’s a 2005” seem to be at the root of your suffering. 

Most people would consider you a huge success and would love a life like yours. Lovely house, nice car, own business, trophy wife, and healthy satisfied kid who actually wants to spend more time with you. You are living the dream, yet you are unsatisfied. A BMW 440i would be a dream car for many, but you won’t consider it as your family car. You had a Range Rover Sport, another very nice dream car, yet you remained unsatisfied and had to upgrade to the bigger one. A hybrid won’t do, it has to be a V8. Your house sounds lovely, yet you want a “7-bed Georgian mansion with a 10-supercar garage”. None of these things will bring you happiness because then there will be a 10-bed mansion and 15 supercars for you to crave. Or how about a yacht? Or a villa in France etc. There will always be something bigger and better. My concern is that even if you sort out your debt, until you learn to be happy with what you have, you will never eliminate the endless craving that is making you unhappy. I notice you have tried counselling and maybe you have worked on this already.

You also strike me as a somewhat selfish person. You complain about your wife spending £45 on a phone case while you were spending £2100 / month on cars for yourself (the Range Rover and the F Type). Selling the Range Rover would go a long way to solving your debt, and improving your family life, but you refuse to even consider it. You also complain about her wanting a new iPhone every year. So she gets £1000 while you still have the £12000/year Range Rover and she is the issue? You talk about getting a Jaguar instead of the 440i because it is her dream car, but if you are honest with yourself isn’t it really just another toy for you? Has to be the V12 right? Like she’d notice the difference.

I also find it interesting that you mock your FIL for being “anti-capitalist” when you are the biggest victim of capitalism yourself. You have fallen for the capitalist propaganda that you need expensive consumer goods to be happy and that you should borrow money to pay for them. And this has brought you nothing but suffering. 

I’m sounding a little preachy so I’ll admit I’ve fallen victim to the lifestyle inflation trap myself in the past. I’ve recently paid off £22k in debt and learned to be happy with less. I downsized my house and bought a cheaper car. I thought I’d hate it but I don’t. I love it because life is better when you don’t have the stress of living beyond your means.

Agree with a lot of this. I found an awesome house mix on soundcloud which was music mixed to Alan Watts lectures and he talks about a lot of what you’re saying. The principles make sense and a lot of us fall into the trap...

Agree re: the cars but from reading they both have the penchant for luxury goods. A bit harsh to call the OP selfish when he’s the only one providing for the family and the wife is basically blaming him and so far refusing to get on board and refuses to get a job. I can see where you are coming from though. Do personally think it’s nuts not to consider further compromise on the cars but he can’t right now anyway. I’d bet the mindset will change as he gets deeper into the journey, mine did with time.

OP is doing great so far, it’s early days and already the change in attitude is stark.

purplehippo276

alt80 said:

@downshifted My mum and dad are about my only cheerleaders (from afar) lol so thanks. 

Can't believe the attention the champagne has got on here tbf but open to trying new things. 

Think the champagne is getting attention because at £84 a month, you’re spending over a grand a year on champagne whilst heavily in debt. A grand! 

oatmealandraisin

ryanm8655 said:

Agree with a lot of this. I found an awesome house mix on soundcloud which was music mixed to Alan Watts lectures and he talks about a lot of what you’re saying. The principles make sense and a lot of us fall into the trap...

Agree re: the cars but from reading they both have the penchant for luxury goods. A bit harsh to call the OP selfish when he’s the only one providing for the family and the wife is basically blaming him and so far refusing to get on board and refuses to get a job. I can see where you are coming from though. Do personally think it’s nuts not to consider further compromise on the cars but he can’t right now anyway. I’d bet the mindset will change as he gets deeper into the journey, mine did with time.

OP is doing great so far, it’s early days and already the change in attitude is stark.

It is a long and difficult journey I agree. My hope was that my post would challenge OP to reset his thinking on a number of things - perhaps some tough love.

alt80

@ladyholly No not really. Family consider me 'successful' - don't want them knowing. Most of my friends are in property too I wouldn't want to admit my lifestyle is funded by debt - they are quite aware the property is but if they knew I was in for six figures on cars they'd probably say I am a bit of a prat. People I know through cars I'd be mortified to admit any of it to tbh. I don't want anyone to know about the f-type and as winter is coming it won't seem too weird it not being out, hopefully I'll have a Vantage in spring.

Hopefully I'll find the counselling works in the long term - I know I do have some personal issues that lead me to keep getting into personal debt. Need to start to change my mindset a bit - not getting any younger and need to take a bit of responsibility.

@getmore4less no second charges etc but as my home is the only thing I have with equity in I have put it at risk. I know what the consequences are of the liability in effect falling to me should something go wrong. No other way and not really a massive risk so it is what it is. 

LTV as a whole is a smidge under 75% at current market value. My main concern is as you say being in a position whereby I would not be able to refinance when the time comes - the svrs are ridiculous (over 5%). A few are coming up for refinancing next year and going to swap them to i/o (should have never really been on a repayment basis in the first place but that's what I chose to do when I first set out). Maintaining cash flow isn't a major issue but I'm not really thinking straight right now and find myself worrying about the future of it all on a regular basis both refinancing and it becoming much harder to get problem tenants out. Unnecessarily worried about my other business too- think it's just the fact I need to at least maintain my current income and if everything did go wrong I 100% could not maintain that.

Definitely want to pick up the forced sales if that's how the market goes but appreciate my chances aren't exactly amazing right now. I could scrape a couple of deposits but that'd leave me with no sinking funds whatsoever or I could potentially remo my home to highest LTV possible at a less than great rate - would at least give deposits.

To start putting the money I am taking out from btls back into the business I need to get rid of the card debt and the school. Neither are going to happen in less than a year. My business head playing second fiddle to my personal head is a fair point - not sure I can do anything about that now though certainly not until the cards have gone.

alt80

@oatmealandraisin I'd say it's fair I crave things far too much always have done. Re cars always been my 'downfall' probably always will. I buy the V8s / V12s because I'm a car guy and at some point in my lifetime that'll be gone as the government push all into little electric boxes which have about as much soul as a fridge. Nothing like a supercharged V8 on on full chat so not going to apologise for that. Want to enjoy them whilst I can all 9mpg of them. You might think it's childish / selfish or whatever but I earn the money might as well enjoy the toys.

I like houses too but they don't depreciate at the rate of throwing a brick out of a 15th storey window so are less of a problem.

MidsHollie

alt80 said:
A few are coming up for refinancing next year and going to swap them to i/o 

I thought you had said that you BtLs were your pension? Surely you would need to be paying capital off the mortgages if you are going to have a retirement that even partially matches your current lifestyle? Or is there another way to fund your retirement?

alt80

Day 1 - October
Had to fall on a Saturday didn't it? 🤣 

Not done bad re. spending though £25 on cafe lunch and fuelled up £130 (here we go ... 😱) That's it. Great day out with the family, took the dog for a long walk around a nice country park c.20 miles from home and had a run in the f-type. Freezing cold all day so fire on again. I'll admit I am thinking if there's anyway I can keep the f-type but can't see it right now. Great day all in all.

@ryanm8655 Thanks mate re the cars most people don't get it that's why I asked for it to not be discussed. If I were a man off the street looking at this and didn't get the whole car thing not gonna lie the first thing I'd say is get rid of all the cars at the first opportunity and get a new 320 or XF or something similar to share. Quit the school. Throw everything at the cards. Grow a pair and tell the wife if she wants eyelashes she needs to pay for them. Be ready to buy those forced sales. Move your business to the next level and when all that's done, get yourself back down to Land Rover and tick every option on the list. However I'm not on the outside looking in or we wouldn't be in this position haha.

@purplehippo276 £1k/a not exactly massive amounts of money? I'd say most people spend at least this much on alcohol tbf the full bill per month for us is about £150/m and we're not big drinkers.

@MidsHollie pension yes I suppose - never really sat and planned it out and this is probably not the time to admit as it sounds a bit vulgar and not doing myself any favours but my main motivator was to be able to say I've got seven figures in property which I can legitimately say also get a buzz out of the chase. When I started I was obsessed with the idea of paying them all off. 

curtains174

Hi, I don’t mean to offend with thIs post, just want to give another perspective as I’m aware that your wife has faced some criticism on this thread.

I can’t blame her for feeling a little disappointed, frustrated and with her struggle to get on board with your money saving. Your fixation with cars and the related costs must be playing a part in this. To prioritise these over your sons education, pension, holidays and general lifestyle must be hard to understand. I’m struggling to rationalise this and he’s not my son, nor is it my lifestyle being compromised.

I appreciate that cars mean a lot to you, but this may be one of the reasons why your wife is slow to come on board with your journey.

i really do wish you well with your journey to become debt free and hope as a family you find a way through this. You’ve come a long way from your first posts!

alt80

oatmealandraisin said:

It is a long and difficult journey I agree. My hope was that my post would challenge OP to reset his thinking on a number of things - perhaps some tough love.

Thank you. I did initially feel quite annoyed about your post when I first read tbf but I do understand where you're coming from. I am image conscious, a bit too much. I said yesterday I'd like to get to the point where I like nice things but am not desperate to f**k myself to buy them. I know I'll never be good enough for the yachts or a Jay Leno style collection just admitting that makes me feel so ashamed yet I've seen enough 'life' to know you're right about some people seeing my lifestyle as 'living the dream' (and more in some cases). When I was in my 20s I used to pass my current home regularly and think I'd feel I'd arrived if I ever bought it or one like it in the area. I am generally proud to call it home but the minute I'm in the company of someone who I know has gone one better I will dread them knowing I 'only' live in a £600k house and I know theirs has a market value of £750k. (These figures buy a lot up here appreciate it's nothing in London). Victim of capitalism? Maybe so.

getmore4less

MidsHollie said:

alt80 said:
A few are coming up for refinancing next year and going to swap them to i/o 

I thought you had said that you BtLs were your pension? Surely you would need to be paying capital off the mortgages if you are going to have a retirement that even partially matches your current lifestyle? Or is there another way to fund your retirement?

The idea is to retain cash in the business for it to grow with more purchases,. 

Paying down the debt can come later once you stop growing it untill you need the income.