Refused PIP - What next

kazzyd_2

I had a telephone assessment for pip about 3 weeks ago.

I got the decision letter a couple of days ago and it was refused. I scored zero points.

Is it worth taking it further even with zero points? 

I've claimed it more on mental health although because I'm quite overweight, I did say I don't bathe, because I have trouble getting in and out. I just shower but even then I'm scared getting in and out. Also walking, I walk very slow and it takes me  ages. They reckon cos I have a 15 minute walk to work after getting off the bus, I have no problems.

The mental health, they said although I'm on medication but have no other health professional or treatment involved, I'm fine. I sent them proof that I had a telephone assessment with a mental health team, a week before lockdown, she said I was to have group therapy and one to one sessions. They ignored this. The PIP assessor asked if I had suicidal thoughts and I told her I did, my GP also knows this but she didn't ask the any details. In fact the whole assessment lasted about 15 minutes and she didn't ask anything really that wasn't on the form.
I've told them I don't go anywhere alone, except work, cos it's very local. I've told them I have difficulty talking to people and don't go anywhere except work because of this but it seems cos I'm fit enough to do that, there's nothing wrong with me.
The assessor also said I was fine on the phone with a good recollection and no signs of anxiety, I answered everything she asked, what else was I meant to do?

Theres other bits as well but I'm mainly angry about the mental health refferal and treatment being ignored.
So just wondering if it's worth pursuing.

calcotti

I have known people go from initial decision with zero points to an award of enhanced rate both components at appeal so definitely worth pursuing if you believe you should qualify. make sure you understand the point scoring system and be honest with yourself.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/benefits-introduction/problems-with-benefits-and-tax-credits/challenging-a-benefit-decision/challenging-a-dwp-benefit-decision-on-or-after-28-october-2013/appealing-against-a-benefit-decision/appealing-against-a-dwp-benefit-decision/
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/Global/PIP descriptors.pdf
You need to start by requesting a Mandatory Reconsideration. If you can provide extra information do so.

This might be useful to refer to if you didn't at the time you completed your PIP2 https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/help-with-your-claim/fill-in-form/

kazzyd_2

Thank you. I had looked at the scoring system before filling out the form and I was honest on it.
I knew I probably wouldn't get both parts but I tight I may have qualified for the basic because of my mental health.
I think I'm more disappointed about things that were ignored and they think I'm fine just because I can hold down a telephone conversation, rather than being refused the Benefit.

Thanks for the advice, how do I ask for a Mandatory Reconsideration, do I phone them?

poppy12345

It will be worth having a read of this to give yourself a better understanding of the PIP descriptors and what they mean.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria

For the MR you should put this in writing stating where and why you think you should have scored those points and then add a couple of recent real world examples of what happened the last time you attempted that activity for each descriptor that applies to you.

You told them you have difficult doing a certain activity but did you tell them why you have that difficulty? Just telling them you can't do something isn't going to help your claim.

They very rarely contact anyone for any evidence, the onus is on you to make sure it's sent to support your claim.

Medical evidence is only ever useful if it's states how your conditions affect you and most medical evidence doesn't state this.

Mobility, moving around. A 15 minute walk but how far is this? how fast do you walk? do you need to rest while walking to work? How many times a week do you do that walk and do you walk the same distance on your way home? These are all the things they will be looking for.

calcotti

kazzyd_2 said:Thanks for the advice, how do I ask for a Mandatory Reconsideration, do I phone them?

Sorry - meant to include this link in my earlier post https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/benefits-introduction/problems-with-benefits-and-tax-credits/challenging-a-benefit-decision/challenging-a-dwp-benefit-decision-on-or-after-28-october-2013/challenging-a-benefit-or-tax-credit-decision-asking-for-a-reconsideration/

kazzyd_2

Thank you, I'll get that done today. 

Spoonie_Turtle

Yeah, with the walking, how far is it? It used to take me 15 mins to walk the 400m to work which is ridiculously slow* but if you only tell them how long you can walk and not how far they'll just assume that's at a 'normal' pace. Also make sure to tell them the effects of whatever walking you do.

*(although I'm still not entirely sure if I'd have qualified for any mobility award back then tbh - I can only imagine it would have been quite a fight)

kazzyd_2

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Yeah, with the walking, how far is it? It used to take me 15 mins to walk the 400m to work which is ridiculously slow* but if you only tell them how long you can walk and not how far they'll just assume that's at a 'normal' pace. Also make sure to tell them the effects of whatever walking you do.

*(although I'm still not entirely sure if I'd have qualified for any mobility award back then tbh - I can only imagine it would have been quite a fight)

I'm not actually sure how far it is, its from one end of a shopping centre to the other. I told them I do walk slowly and stop occasionally because I get out of breath, my heart starts racing and then I start coughing.
Letter states he has decided I can walk more than 200 metres because I stated I can walk from the bus stop to work at a slow pace and this takes me 15 minutes, walking at a slow pace of 40 metres a minute would mean I can walk approximately 600 metres.

I'm kinda lost on that bit because they never asked how far from the bus stop to work, they asked how long it took me.

I'm rubbish with measurements and stuff so I've just asked someone to estimate the walk. They reckon it's 1,000 metres.
To be honest, I've never actually timed it but I do know that if I'm not out the door on the hour, I miss the bus 25 past the hour.

Spoonie_Turtle

kazzyd_2 said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Yeah, with the walking, how far is it? It used to take me 15 mins to walk the 400m to work which is ridiculously slow* but if you only tell them how long you can walk and not how far they'll just assume that's at a 'normal' pace. Also make sure to tell them the effects of whatever walking you do.

*(although I'm still not entirely sure if I'd have qualified for any mobility award back then tbh - I can only imagine it would have been quite a fight)

I'm not actually sure how far it is, its from one end of a shopping centre to the other. I told them I do walk slowly and stop occasionally because I get out of breath, my heart starts racing and then I start coughing.
Letter states he has decided I can walk more than 200 metres because I stated I can walk from the bus stop to work at a slow pace and this takes me 15 minutes, walking at a slow pace of 40 metres a minute would mean I can walk approximately 600 metres.

I'm kinda lost on that bit because they never asked how far from the bus stop to work, they asked how long it took me.

I'm rubbish with measurements and stuff so I've just asked someone to estimate the walk. They reckon it's 1,000 metres.
To be honest, I've never actually timed it but I do know that if I'm not out the door on the hour, I miss the bus 25 past the hour.

You can use Google maps to measure a distance - get the satellite map up, right click on where you get off the bus, select 'measure distance' then click again where you finish. 

Depending on what other walking you do e.g. at work, how well you move around the rest of the time, you may not qualify - especially if your pauses are brief to catch your breath rather than an actual rest. https://pipinfo.net/activities/moving-around might help clarify it (especially if you go down to and read 'Effect of pauses and halts on ability to move around when applying PIP mobility descriptors')

But definitely read the links given before in the thread to understand the concepts first before focusing on the walking

born_again

kazzyd_2 said:

Thanks for the advice, how do I ask for a Mandatory Reconsideration, do I phone them?

The instructions are in the letter you got from them about you claim.

Alice_Holt

calcotti said:

I have known people go from initial decision with zero points to an award of enhanced rate both components at appeal so definitely worth pursuing if you believe you should qualify...

     I would agree with calcotti.  It's certainty not at all uncommon for claimants given zero points at assessment to get a PIP award at tribunal - particularly around the mental health activities / descriptors.

  You need to be prepared to go to tribunal, as very few MR's succeed. This is a helpful guide to the appeal process:
   https://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/how-win-pip-appeal  , and a tool to help you complete the MR:
https://www.advicenow.org.uk/pip-tool
   
See if a local advice charity has the staff / resources to help you with an appeal to the Tribunal Service.  If not, then this site has some very detailed guides on PIP and PIP appeals (but membership is c.£20).
https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip

PIP success rates at tribunal are around 70 plus %, or so:
https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/2019/september/pip-and-esa-appeal-success-rate-now-75-cent