Insurance forced onto me by mortgage adviser

Anamox

Hi all,

During my mortgage consultations the adviser tried to sell me home and contents insurance, I politely verbally refused. On the next meeting they showed me a quotation for home and contents insurance and I again politely explained it was far more expensive than quotes I'd received on comparisons and I had no interest in signing up for it, they accepted this. The meetings went forwards as normal and the paperwork was signed, it was (now I realise) sort of a rushed signing where they explained what each item was one by one and passively rushed the signing - I'm confident I only signed for mortgage related things, but this was nearly a year ago. 

Fast forward to now and I've completed, and I've suddenly got an email from the mortgage adviser's head office informing me my home and contents insurance has been set up and payment will be taken from the bank details they already have on file (no mention of DD or how it will be paid). They say I'll get a confirmation from the insurance company and this would form the start of a 14 day cooling off period where I could pull out - I haven't received such confirmation and the insurance company are un-contactable. The mortgage adviser's also are not responding to my questions/complaint on the matter.

My feeling is they have used some kind of smoke screen tactic to mis-sell me this product in order to gain their referral fee, gaining my signature somewhere and not making it clear this was an agreement to sign up for the insurance. My feeling is also that the insurance company concerned are going to not make any contact, take a payment then force me into a fight over the money/cancellation/rights and hope I just continue paying or cancel and let them keep 1 month of payment.

I'm not looking for compensation or anything over it, it won't be a world-ending amount of money but I'm a person of principle and really don't like that this has happened. I'm just baffled by it and wondered if anyone has experienced the same? What would your opinion/actions be if it happened to you?

[Deleted User]

If it's a policy you don't want, just cancel it. All this talk of smoke screens, passive rushing and insurance companies hiding from you is just clouding your judgement.

However before your do, check that your contract with the advisor didn't agree to buy policies instead of paying a fee for their services.  It's the usual explanation in instances like these.

elsien

You have copies of the paperwork you signed. What’s in there? 

dunstonh

My feeling is they have used some kind of smoke screen tactic to mis-sell me this product in order to gain their referral fee, gaining my signature somewhere and not making it clear this was an agreement to sign up for the insurance.

The commission on a home insurance is peanuts.  So, its unlikely that a mortgage adviser would do something in breach of regulations to earn such a small amount.

It is more likely a clerical issue or misunderstanding. 

. My feeling is also that the insurance company concerned are going to not make any contact, take a payment then force me into a fight over the money/cancellation/rights and hope I just continue paying or cancel and let them keep 1 month of payment.

There should be no fight.  You are sent cancellation rights and you need to exercise them.  They are not allowed to talk you out of it and it is the insurer that handles the process.  Not the advising firm.

However, do note what zx81 says.   A lot of chain company brokers do have a requirement to purchase an insurance to get free mortgage advice.  That model is allowed as long as the insurance is suitable.  It still has to be sold and put in place in the right way though.

Anamox

elsien said:

You have copies of the paperwork you signed. What’s in there? 

Where did I say this? The paperwork I signed at the consultation is firmly in the hands of the mortgage adviser's firm. The only paperwork I have remotely related is the actual paperwork for my mortgage, sent from the mortgage provider. This is my point, I've got insurance without my prior knowledge and without any explanation or evidence as to how/why I'm now signed up to them.

Deleted_User said:

If it's a policy you don't want, just cancel it. All this talk of smoke screens, passive rushing and insurance companies hiding from you is just clouding your judgement.

However before your do, check that your contract with the advisor didn't agree to buy policies instead of paying a fee for their services.  It's the usual explanation in instances like these.

I don't have any policy number to log into their website to cancel anything. Both of the companies are absolutely impossible to contact, which is odd considering the mortgage adviser was so easy to contact during the consultations.  I paid a £599 fee for lifetime advice from this mortgage firm, the signup booklet only mentions that I may be advised to take out insurance policies at my discretion and there is no obligation to accept the quote - and considering their quote was £60 a month, I'm sure nobody would! I was never told or explained anything about a requirement to buy insurance policies, although I understand this may be the model some advisers use.

dunstonh said:

There should be no fight.  You are sent cancellation rights and you need to exercise them.  They are not allowed to talk you out of it and it is the insurer that handles the process.  Not the advising firm.

However, do note what zx81 says.   A lot of chain company brokers do have a requirement to purchase an insurance to get free mortgage advice.  That model is allowed as long as the insurance is suitable.  It still has to be sold and put in place in the right way though.

I haven't been sent any cancellation rights or notice of the start of a cooling off period as the advisers generic 'no reply' email has promised me. I don't have a policy number, policy booklet or anything which tells me anything other than the name of the insurer. I haven't been told how payment will be taken and presumably as I haven't got a direct debit with them they are going to take payment directly from my card as the adviser's generic email said "you must inform us if your payment details have changed" regarding the insurance premiums. With the inability to communicate with either the insurer or adviser it will be down to me and my bank to get this £60 odd back and this is where it seems, like many other shoddy companies, they hope you'll just remain quiet and let them keep the money.

The whole thing stinks of poor ethical practice and I can imagine many people blindly/unknowingly pay out for this insurance without their own knowledge of it exist or knowledge of their rights on cancellation. Having seen the reviews for the insurance firm in question just now it's clear they'd have near to zero chance of surviving on the open market, and are most likely relying on referrals which don't scrutinise the rubbish company they may be signing up to be with.

Splatfoot

Cancel the card you used. That's what I've done in the past. 

dunstonh

I haven't been sent any cancellation rights or notice of the start of a cooling off period as the advisers generic 'no reply' email has promised me. I

How long is the gap between that letter and the supposed start date? (moving in or exchange of contracts date)?

Is it possible that the letter sent from the adviser's firm could just be the wrong template?

Why are you not talking to them to find out one way or the other?

The whole thing stinks of poor ethical practice and I can imagine many people blindly/unknowingly pay out for this insurance without their own knowledge of it exist or knowledge of their rights on cancellation.

You are making this far more complicated than it needs to be and you are seeing a conspiracy where none is likely.   

Cancellation rights are issued.  Direct debit notifications are issued. Policy documents are issued.  All coming direct and not by the adviser firm.

Having seen the reviews for the insurance firm in question just now it's clear they'd have near to zero chance of surviving on the open market, and are most likely relying on referrals which don't scrutinise the rubbish company they may be signing up to be with.

Nobody takes any notice of insurance company reviews as most of the reviews are automatically negative due to the nature of reviewing and half of the reviews will be complete and utter rubbish.

Anamox

dunstonh said:

I haven't been sent any cancellation rights or notice of the start of a cooling off period as the advisers generic 'no reply' email has promised me. I

How long is the gap between that letter and the supposed start date? (moving in or exchange of contracts date)?

Is it possible that the letter sent from the adviser's firm could just be the wrong template?

Why are you not talking to them to find out one way or the other?

The whole thing stinks of poor ethical practice and I can imagine many people blindly/unknowingly pay out for this insurance without their own knowledge of it exist or knowledge of their rights on cancellation.

You are making this far more complicated than it needs to be and you are seeing a conspiracy where none is likely.   

Cancellation rights are issued.  Direct debit notifications are issued. Policy documents are issued.  All coming direct and not by the adviser firm.

Having seen the reviews for the insurance firm in question just now it's clear they'd have near to zero chance of surviving on the open market, and are most likely relying on referrals which don't scrutinise the rubbish company they may be signing up to be with.

Nobody takes any notice of insurance company reviews as most of the reviews are automatically negative due to the nature of reviewing and half of the reviews will be complete and utter rubbish.

No start date on the emails I already have, I completed on the move two weeks ago. It could be plausible it's the wrong template, but I cannot get hold of them (the insurer nor the advisers) to find this out despite my attempts. Phoned and emailed to no avail, just an email response saying my query has been received and the "COVID" excuse for the phone lines going unanswered indefinitely. 

I haven't been issued cancellation rights, I haven't got a direct debit notification, I don't have policy documentation. I have one email from the mortgage adviser firm stating the policy has started and I will shortly receive documentation on my right to cancel within 14 days... this is day 12. I literally don't have any information on the policy other than the insurer's name, an insurer that only publicly lists telephone numbers for contact and the moment you ring you're put in a queue, then they pick up and hang up after 15 odd minutes. I can't use the online services because I don't have a policy number. 

As for it being a conspiracy, we're all smart enough to realise there are plenty of companies that operate like this... this section of the forum wouldn't exist if it didn't happen! I've been a victim to these kind of practices before with a broadband company - their practices made it impossible to cancel without penalty or refund of services not delivered, the ombudsman eventually ruled in my favour and the contract was cancelled with zero refunds leaving me £150 odd out of pocket for a service that wasn't delivered and the inability to get internet during those many months where there was a block on the line... The very same obscure company has been doing this for at least 5 years and is hotly debated on this forum frequently. 

As for insurance reviews, I just searched the first 3 big name insurers (Churchill, LV and Direct Line) that came to mind on Trustpilot and all score 4.2/5 and above with thousands of reviews... 

dunstonh

I haven't been issued cancellation rights, I haven't got a direct debit notification, I don't have policy documentation. I have one email from the mortgage adviser firm stating the policy has started and I will shortly receive documentation on my right to cancel within 14 days... this is day 12. I literally don't have any information on the policy other than the insurer's name, an insurer that only publicly lists telephone numbers for contact and the moment you ring you're put in a queue, then they pick up and hang up after 15 odd minutes. I can't use the online services because I don't have a policy number.

Is this a localised mortgage broker firm or a national/regional?    Nationals tend to have a poor reputation.   Locals the opposite.

As for it being a conspiracy, we're all smart enough to realise there are plenty of companies that operate like this... this section of the forum wouldn't exist if it didn't happen! I've been a victim to these kind of practices before with a broadband company - their practices made it impossible to cancel without penalty or refund of services not delivered, the ombudsman eventually ruled in my favour and the contract was cancelled with zero refunds leaving me £150 odd out of pocket for a service that wasn't delivered and the inability to get internet during those many months where there was a block on the line... The very same obscure company has been doing this for at least 5 years and is hotly debated on this forum frequently.

It is very unusual in the independent mortgage broker area.  Sales methods pushing limits are more common with salesforces/nationals.  Independents are personally responsible for bad outcomes.  So, they suffer the costs and stress. So there is no logic in doing things wrong.  Nationals do not suffer personally as the employer does.

As for insurance reviews, I just searched the first 3 big name insurers (Churchill, LV and Direct Line) that came to mind on Trustpilot and all score 4.2/5 and above with thousands of reviews...

And I can say at least one of those badgers you to put a review on just after purchase.   Where you are more likely to mark it positively.  Another of those three is owned by Allianz that has a 1.4 rating on Trustpilot and two of them I would not use.  I would suggest the ratings are pointless for those two.  I have no experience of the other.

It is a general rule of thumb that trustpilot ratings are easily manipulated and collected at the wrong time.  

[Deleted User]

Splatfoot said:

Cancel the card you used. That's what I've done in the past. 

Cancelling a CC doesn't stop payments, nor does it solve the issue if the OP has (accidentally/unwittingly) signed up for an insurance package, refusing to pay just creates a world of problems - cancelling the policy is the right advice, yours is very bad as it could eventually lead to default/debt collectors

Anamox

dunstonh said:

I haven't been issued cancellation rights, I haven't got a direct debit notification, I don't have policy documentation. I have one email from the mortgage adviser firm stating the policy has started and I will shortly receive documentation on my right to cancel within 14 days... this is day 12. I literally don't have any information on the policy other than the insurer's name, an insurer that only publicly lists telephone numbers for contact and the moment you ring you're put in a queue, then they pick up and hang up after 15 odd minutes. I can't use the online services because I don't have a policy number.

Is this a localised mortgage broker firm or a national/regional?    Nationals tend to have a poor reputation.   Locals the opposite.

As for it being a conspiracy, we're all smart enough to realise there are plenty of companies that operate like this... this section of the forum wouldn't exist if it didn't happen! I've been a victim to these kind of practices before with a broadband company - their practices made it impossible to cancel without penalty or refund of services not delivered, the ombudsman eventually ruled in my favour and the contract was cancelled with zero refunds leaving me £150 odd out of pocket for a service that wasn't delivered and the inability to get internet during those many months where there was a block on the line... The very same obscure company has been doing this for at least 5 years and is hotly debated on this forum frequently.

It is very unusual in the independent mortgage broker area.  Sales methods pushing limits are more common with salesforces/nationals.  Independents are personally responsible for bad outcomes.  So, they suffer the costs and stress. So there is no logic in doing things wrong.  Nationals do not suffer personally as the employer does.

As for insurance reviews, I just searched the first 3 big name insurers (Churchill, LV and Direct Line) that came to mind on Trustpilot and all score 4.2/5 and above with thousands of reviews...

And I can say at least one of those badgers you to put a review on just after purchase.   Where you are more likely to mark it positively.  Another of those three is owned by Allianz that has a 1.4 rating on Trustpilot and two of them I would not use.  I would suggest the ratings are pointless for those two.  I have no experience of the other.

It is a general rule of thumb that trustpilot ratings are easily manipulated and collected at the wrong time.  

It is a national firm, I realised once I had already signed up and paid that it was the wrong way forwards... but when I signed up I'd experienced a free broker who didn't have a clue and wrongly convinced myself you have to pay for good service.

I'd agree you'd be very unlikely to experience things like this with more independent or local brokers, they have a reputation that could destroy their livelihood whereas this national company has one of the (if not the) largest estate agent companies in the UK behind them and fancy marketing to match. Luckily for most of us mortgage advice is something we only need once or twice in our lives, meaning without prying into forums like this we don't know who is best to advise us.

As a side note to the original point, I've been checking my direct debits daily on my bank and today the insurance company showed up on the list. Every direct debit I've ever signed up for had the direct debit agreement to sign on paper or virtually, I definitely have not signed or accepted anything to do with a Direct Debit regarding this insurance company; that is one thing I am 100% confident on. 

I managed to talk to the insurance company today, they palmed me off because I couldn't give them a policy number and also informed me that as the policy is "purchased" via a broker they do not administer it and do not have access to it, I need to talk to the mortgage broker regarding the issue instead... the mortgage broker remains uncontactable. If I wasn't working the exact same hours the broker's office is open I would visit them personally and get this sorted but for now it remains a mystery.