People with pets and a leasehold that prohibits them - what did you do?

SaintJudy

hb2 said:

We have 2 cats and moved into this flat 3 years ago. Before we even viewed somewhere, we asked the EA about pets - as has been said, many purpose built blocks have a blanket 'no pets' clause. When we decided we liked this flat, we asked for sight of the relevant page of the lease, and got our vendors to ask the other freeholders whether they would object to pets, very early in the process of buying.

One of our cats has medical problems and doesn't go outside. The other goes out and is a prolific hunter. I'm always worried if other people leave outside doors open as I am afraid that cat will wander around the communal areas and become a nuisance - we hope to have him with us for many years yet and I would be heartbroken if we were asked to re-home him (I would rather lose my home than my cat but OH doesn't feel the same way). 

This is exactly the approach I'm already taking, I've spoken to my solicitor that this is the highest priority because if I can't get agreement from the other flats then this sale can't proceed. I'm not prepared to chance it and find there may be a problem later, but I'm also not willing to fall at the first hurdle and walk away without even trying as per many of the other comments here. Frankly I'm quite surprised at some of the comments I've received, and can only assume that they are the kind of people who must give up on things without trying to find solutions. I also don't think that I'm a special case and that 'the rules don't apply to me' which is why replies like yours are helpful and encouraging  Thanks for sharing your experience with me! 

SaintJudy

greensalad said:

Surely the "causes annoyance" part is the real key here? It's not a blanket ban on animals, it's a ban on animals causing annoyance. Surely in a case where someone complains you're breaching the lease (which is having a pet that causes annoyance, not just having a pet) they would have to go some way to prove the annoyance? E.g sound complaints or evidence of messes. Ergo if there is no reasonable evidence to suggest annoyance, the pet can stay?

I've also wondered about this, where is the line drawn? I'm frequently annoyed by my downstair's neighbour's children but I wouldn't go so far as to insist they moved out 

xylophone

They're indoor only cats 

Unless they have piercing yowls it is difficult to see how they would cause annoyance - and if they don't, how would your neighbours know they were there?

Cats hardly parade across the floor in hobnailed boots.....

letsbetfair

SaintJudy said:

hb2 said:

We have 2 cats and moved into this flat 3 years ago. Before we even viewed somewhere, we asked the EA about pets - as has been said, many purpose built blocks have a blanket 'no pets' clause. When we decided we liked this flat, we asked for sight of the relevant page of the lease, and got our vendors to ask the other freeholders whether they would object to pets, very early in the process of buying.

One of our cats has medical problems and doesn't go outside. The other goes out and is a prolific hunter. I'm always worried if other people leave outside doors open as I am afraid that cat will wander around the communal areas and become a nuisance - we hope to have him with us for many years yet and I would be heartbroken if we were asked to re-home him (I would rather lose my home than my cat but OH doesn't feel the same way). 

This is exactly the approach I'm already taking, I've spoken to my solicitor that this is the highest priority because if I can't get agreement from the other flats then this sale can't proceed. I'm not prepared to chance it and find there may be a problem later, but I'm also not willing to fall at the first hurdle and walk away without even trying as per many of the other comments here. Frankly I'm quite surprised at some of the comments I've received, and can only assume that they are the kind of people who must give up on things without trying to find solutions. I also don't think that I'm a special case and that 'the rules don't apply to me' which is why replies like yours are helpful and encouraging  Thanks for sharing your experience with me! 

Even if all current residents agree, this isn't a guarantee against future problems. They might change their mind, or sell to someone who is deathly allergic to cats... Fair enough if you want to take the risk, but don't assume that you can rule out future problems

SaintJudy

xylophone said:

They're indoor only cats 

Unless they have piercing yowls it is difficult to see how they would cause annoyance - and if they don't, how would your neighbours know they were there?

Cats hardly parade across the floor in hobnailed boots.....

They sleep for literally 22 hours a day! 

NeilCr

SaintJudy said:

hb2 said:

We have 2 cats and moved into this flat 3 years ago. Before we even viewed somewhere, we asked the EA about pets - as has been said, many purpose built blocks have a blanket 'no pets' clause. When we decided we liked this flat, we asked for sight of the relevant page of the lease, and got our vendors to ask the other freeholders whether they would object to pets, very early in the process of buying.

One of our cats has medical problems and doesn't go outside. The other goes out and is a prolific hunter. I'm always worried if other people leave outside doors open as I am afraid that cat will wander around the communal areas and become a nuisance - we hope to have him with us for many years yet and I would be heartbroken if we were asked to re-home him (I would rather lose my home than my cat but OH doesn't feel the same way). 

This is exactly the approach I'm already taking, I've spoken to my solicitor that this is the highest priority because if I can't get agreement from the other flats then this sale can't proceed. I'm not prepared to chance it and find there may be a problem later, but I'm also not willing to fall at the first hurdle and walk away without even trying as per many of the other comments here. Frankly I'm quite surprised at some of the comments I've received, and can only assume that they are the kind of people who must give up on things without trying to find solutions. I also don't think that I'm a special case and that 'the rules don't apply to me' which is why replies like yours are helpful and encouraging  Thanks for sharing your experience with me! 

Thing is though the other residents don't know your cats so I can't see how anyone can give you the blanket agreement you seem to want. As edddy said earlier I think the best you will get is yes - as long as they don't cause a disturbance

As I've said before on here one prospective resident here did offer us the chance to "interview" their dog to prove how quiet and well behaved it was. We declined (although we would have loved to meet the pooch in question) as half an hour during daylight didn't really prove anything. It could be a night howler for example 

Your headline is a little disingenuous to be fair. Pets aren't prohibited per se. Just ones that cause a probkem

NeilCr

SaintJudy said:

greensalad said:

Surely the "causes annoyance" part is the real key here? It's not a blanket ban on animals, it's a ban on animals causing annoyance. Surely in a case where someone complains you're breaching the lease (which is having a pet that causes annoyance, not just having a pet) they would have to go some way to prove the annoyance? E.g sound complaints or evidence of messes. Ergo if there is no reasonable evidence to suggest annoyance, the pet can stay?

I've also wondered about this, where is the line drawn? I'm frequently annoyed by my downstair's neighbour's children but I wouldn't go so far as to insist they moved out 

Which is one of the reason a strict no pets rule is much easier to have (not that I necessarily agree with it). At least there is no argument with it.

As someone who might be party to a decision about disturbance it's not something I relish. If it helps I've been here 13 years and there are animals in some of the flats and we have had no complaints or issues at all. 

boxer234

I looked into a shared ownership house apparently I would have to get permission to keep my dogs in the house.  Not worth the risk for me if I’m buying I don’t want to have to worry about permission.  

Ditzy_Mitzy

I'm struggling to understand, reading additional responses, what it is the other residents are supposed to agree to.  The lease states that pets can be kept as long as no annoyance is caused; it's a fair compromise.  Asking for an incontrovertible right to keep pets, even if they do cause irritation to the other residents is not fair in any way.  If I still lived in my maisonette I certainly wouldn't consent to another leaseholder varying his/her lease in that regard; I doubt a freeholder would either. 

AdrianC

SaintJudy said:

This is exactly the approach I'm already taking, I've spoken to my solicitor that this is the highest priority because if I can't get agreement from the other flats then this sale can't proceed.

I think you need to be prepared for that.

I'm not prepared to chance it and find there may be a problem later

Unless the freeholder is willing to amend your lease to remove that clause completely, then there can be no future certainty.
If they are willing to do that for you, they need to be willing to do that for all leases.

What if other leaseholders object to the removal of what they may (correctly) perceive to be a protection against somebody moving in with 47 dogs that yap and bark and howl all day and night, shedding hair over the common areas...?

but I'm also not willing to fall at the first hurdle and walk away without even trying as per many of the other comments here. Frankly I'm quite surprised at some of the comments I've received, and can only assume that they are the kind of people who must give up on things without trying to find solutions.

No, it's simple understanding of the reality of the situation.

I also don't think that I'm a special case and that 'the rules don't apply to me'

The rules for this lease say "no pets that may cause annoyance".
You want to buy that lease AND have a guarantee that it won't apply to your pets, even if other leaseholders find their presence an annoyance. Annoyance is in the eye (ear, nose) of the beholder.

I'm struggling to see how you square this dichotomy with your statement, but I'm sure you can explain?