People with pets and a leasehold that prohibits them - what did you do?

SaintJudy

Majoggy said:

We have a similar clause in a similar situation.

Nevertheless there are three cats amongst the twelve flats. We spoke to the chairman of the residents association who advised us to keep our dog on a leash in the communal areas, which is no problem.

The big worry you might have is if you have a very vocal cat or dog that becomes a genuine nuisance to your neighbour. If you don't think that'll be a problem then I wouldn't think about it very much.

Good to hear that you got permission There's only five other flats in the building and only one of them on the same floor as the flat I've offered on, and there are no shared walls with that flat either so it's pretty unlikely they'd even hear anything at all. I asked the seller about having pets and she said it really wouldn't be a problem, but obviously I don't know if she's saying that with any actual knowledge or if she's saying that because she's trying to sell her flat..!

hazyjo

I would never ever risk it. It's a common clause, not a standard one. I would definitely buy something without restrictions.

csgohan4

SaintJudy said:

I've had an offer accepted on a leasehold flat (with share of freehold) and the lease has the standard clause of 'animals that may cause annoyance to be kept at the property'. I have two cats, so this is worrying me a bit. They're indoor only cats and can't imagine anyone would reasonably be able to say they were causing annoyance.

My question is, what have other pet owners in this position done? Have you snuck them in and hoped no one noticed, or did you ask permission from the freeholder? Did you ask permission and were refused? What did you do then? Has anyone gone so far as to manage to get a Deed of Variation?

Curious to know any scenarios or solutions from anyone else in a similar position.

OP why do you feel the lease clause does not apply to you? People's experiences may be different to you and the freeholder. 

What if you have a freeholder not willing to play ball? which is within their right

By all means talk to the free holder, but I wouldn't trust them unless they change the lease, rather than an email.

if having pets so bothers you, have you considered a place which has no such clause? Least you have control over what you want

onwards&upwards

SaintJudy said:

onwards&upwards said:

I bought a flat with a lease that allowed pets.  There aren't many, but I would never have put myself in the situation where I would have had to choose between keeping my animals and losing my home, because the animals would have won every time!

That's it exactly, there's no question of me giving them up. You've been really lucky! 

I suppose I was lucky that there was a building I liked and could afford that didn't have a 'no pets' clause.  But it wasn't just luck it was a decision I made. 

Leases are black and white, if the lease says no pets then you can try keeping pets and hope you get away with it but if you are caught you won't have a leg to stand on, you will have to leave or give up the cats or get evicted and lose all the money you paid for the flat. 

The best thing you can do is find somewhere where your pets are allowed.  This might mean being willing to consider a wider area. 

SaintJudy

csgohan4 said:

SaintJudy said:

I've had an offer accepted on a leasehold flat (with share of freehold) and the lease has the standard clause of 'animals that may cause annoyance to be kept at the property'. I have two cats, so this is worrying me a bit. They're indoor only cats and can't imagine anyone would reasonably be able to say they were causing annoyance.

My question is, what have other pet owners in this position done? Have you snuck them in and hoped no one noticed, or did you ask permission from the freeholder? Did you ask permission and were refused? What did you do then? Has anyone gone so far as to manage to get a Deed of Variation?

Curious to know any scenarios or solutions from anyone else in a similar position.

OP why do you feel the lease clause does not apply to you? People's experiences may be different to you and the freeholder. 

What if you have a freeholder not willing to play ball? which is within their right

By all means talk to the free holder, but I wouldn't trust them unless they change the lease, rather than an email.

if having pets so bothers you, have you considered a place which has no such clause? Least you have control over what you want

There's no need for your snippy reply. If I felt like the clause didn't apply to me then I wouldn't have made this post asking for other's experience on this, would I? I would've just taken my cats to the flat. If you actually read my post you would've seen that I asked about whether others had asked permission, got a deed of variation etc.

NameUnavailable

If it's shared freehold then the OP is (partly) the freeholder! Speak to the other leaseholders (who will be the other freeholders) and ask if they object to cats.

I have a friend who is very allergic to cats, literally comes out in an attack if she goes anywhere near a cat or where a cat has been recently. If she was going to be one of your neighbours I think she'd enforce the lease terms.

The clause is a bit wooly but you don't want to move in and then be told the cats must go, so you need to get assurance before you proceed any further.

davidmcn

Being realistic, as with any covenant you need to consider whether anybody is likely to (a) notice the breach (b) even be aware that it is a breach and (c) be sufficiently bothered to spend time/expense trying to enforce it. I suspect that's most likely to happen where your pets are actually causing the sort of nuisance where you could face legal action on other grounds anyway, irrespective of what the lease/titles say.

pinkteapot

Talk to the freeholder BEFORE exchange and see if you’ll get permission. A friend had an indoor cat in a flat they rented. Their landlord didn’t mind but a neighbour saw it through a window and complained to the freeholder. My friend had to have the cat live with a relative until he could move somewhere else.  

Don’t proceed with the purchase and assume you’ll get away with having the cats. Get proper approval (if they’re prepared to give it) first, or look for another property where it will be available. 

SaintJudy

Thank you @NameUnavailable, @davidmcn and @pinkteapot for your replies and actually reading my original post!     

I'm still very early days as my offer was only accepted last week. I think the next step is to speak to my solicitor about this and see what they advise and go from there, I think you're right @pinkteapot with your advice to get proper approval first (fingers crossed!)

eddddy

Unfortunately, it's probably not possible for the freeholders to give you a Deed of Variation even if they wanted to. Leases tend to be written in a way that the covenants can't be changed for one flat.

(Leases are written along the lines of... there's one set of rules which every leaseholder must obey. It's not possible to give individual leaseholders permission to break the rules.)

So varying your lease would mean having to vary everyone else's as well. Firstly everyone would have to agree, and then the legal costs would probably be huge.


TBH, if you ask the freeholder about this, I suspect the freeholder's reply will just reflect the lease - you can keep animals if they don't cause annoyance. Realistically, that's all a sensible freeholder is able to reply in these circumstances.

I guess the type of risk you face is that another leaseholder gets angry with you for some unrelated reason, and they retaliate by claiming that your cats are causing them annoyance - perhaps 'litter tray smells', fleas getting into common areas, etc.