Replaced engine failed a few days after install

caprikid1

ess0two said:

What car is it?

I don't think the OP will tell us.
"It's a shame about the costs, recovery is £1k, replacement hire cars, trains, hotel room and doesn't take into consideration the amount of my time that is wasting in trying to get all of this sorted. Ho-hum!"
I think you are going to really have to Lawyer up to get those costs covered.

poppasmurf_bewdley

ess0two said:

What car is it?

Why is the OP keeping the car make a secret?  By telling us, people could better answer him.  

Ditzy_Mitzy

poppasmurf_bewdley said:

ess0two said:

What car is it?

Why is the OP keeping the car make a secret?  By telling us, people could better answer him.  

Because I think, I don't know why I think this it's just a feeling or intuition, that it's a Lotus Elise fitted with a Toyota VVTi engine.  The difficulty with this, perhaps, is that if it's the Toyota ZZ engine then the issue described by the OP can be caused by driver error.  Accounts here: https://dustrunnersauto.com/toyota-zz-specs/ and here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_ZZ_engine and here: https://www.monkeywrenchracing.com/tech-2zz-race-track-prep/ suggest that the oil pump can explode (!!) if the driver accidentally over-revs the engine by changing into the wrong gear whilst accelerating; accidentally going from fourth to third when aiming for fifth, for example. 
The OP's account hints this might have happened: he states he was driving on a fast road and something went bang inside the engine at the point he changed gear.  If the oil pump had broken up at that point it would have released metal shards into the crankcase and wrecked everything else.  
Just guesswork, of course.... 

doubleoseven

Marque secret because it's a small world of specialists in this area and I don't want to be seen smearing someone online without first giving them a chance to rectify their work. It's more the principals of liability and potential to claim on s75 I wanted help establishing, rather than specifics on the cars. I can speak to other experts about that. And also, prefer not to let an adversary know my thinking/strategy. Once I have got all my information together, I'll make my moves. 

It's a Japanese make, the engine was a standard engine from an accident damaged car of similar year, not a swap with another brand/type. These engines are renowned for being very strong and generally reliable, even if given abuse, provided they have sufficient oil and are serviced regularly. If fitted properly, would be expecting 50k plus trouble free miles from this car and beyond. 

To demonstrate the reliability further, other tuners regularly turbo charge these engines to dizzying power outputs, without sacrificing reliability, however, mine was normally aspirated and only driven on the motorway prior to its demise, less than 5 days after picking it up. 

The donor engine was said to come from a trusted source, Garage A had throughly checked the engine and gearbox over prior to fitting it. It's worth noting, it was not performing properly day one, the engine was jerking and over running with clutch in. It was explained that this was due to the ECU needing to be recalibrated. However, when I got it to Garage B, they quickly ascertained the throttle boy was letting in air. When removed, it was because Garage A had fitted a new gasket but not removed the old one. Also, one of the coolant pipes came off on the dyno because it wasn't fitted correctly. Both of these problems had to be fixed on site the next day. So including the oil pump missing a part, there were at least two other parts not fitted properly. And Garage A miss diagnosed the problem which Garage B quickly worked out, doesn't give me a huge amount of faith in their experience / knowledge with this particular car. 

I've now got 2 reports and a 3rd coming from other mechanics all saying driving the car with part missing from the oil pump part would damage the engine. It was a genuine mistake on Garage A's part, but a costly one. His argument at the time was that he didn't know it was needed because it wasn't supplied with the oil pump. And that it would not do any damage to the car. But the above mentioned competitors all knew it was required and what would happen if it was left off, they keep these parts in stock. So whilst I feel bad for him in some ways, I don't think his not knowing how to fit something properly cann be something that I am financially liable for. 

All of the above mentioned garages have said, that if they'd fitted the engine with the mistakes mentioned, they'd want to get it sorted for free for reputation reasons, and are surprised that Garage A has not been in touch or made any effort to rectify or even apologise at this point. 

Once the car has been examined by an independent in a couple of weeks and a report on condition produced, I'll be giving Garage A an opportunity to make right before pushing on with the Section 75 claim. 

Although, I have to say, given how many mistakes were made by Garage A (at least 3, one of them major, that I know of), and their lack of willingness to look after me without my pressuring them. I'm fairly nervous to have them do the work, how would I be sure that they'd get a good engine, source new parts that have been damaged and go a good job fitting it. Not to mention, the discomfort of having to deal with them when they've been strong armed into something. 

Regarding my additional costs, I'm not going to try to recover these, I just want to get the car sorted properly, with minimal time/stress/cost. 

frost500

Garage A is at fault. What is the warranty? But I don't understand why you drove it to get the ECU calibrated, that should be part of the rebuild. 

ontheroad1970

Sounds like a Scooby or Evo...

doubleoseven

frost500 said:

Garage A is at fault. What is the warranty? But I don't understand why you drove it to get the ECU calibrated, that should be part of the rebuild. 

That was the original plan, but Garage A had had the car for a month and half, messing about and struggling to get parts. I was going to Europe on Tuesday morning, so it was either Friday or Monday to pick up, right up to the wire, another things I was not very happy about. If he'd taken it to get the ECU done, I would not have been able to pick up until Monday, leaving me no buffer before I left to check things over and do last minute things before I left also and generally adding un wanted stress. 

Because Garage A is approx 3.5 hours from my house and Garage B is in the middle, so it was agreed, I'd just take it back to save time. In future, I'd let them do it, so all the responsibility and liability is on them. Now I know things can go wrong, but you don't think like that until it happens, you assume all will be well and as expected. 

However, I'm kind of glad I did in this case, otherwise, I'd probably never have known about the problems as he'd have fixed and not disclosed, no doubt. And the case against him would be much less robust. Every cloud etc. 

doubleoseven

ontheroad1970 said:

Sounds like a Scooby or Evo...

They're not normally aspirated

frost500

We can you source the parts and not garage a? Do they have no trade accounts with motor factors etc? Also why don't garage a have full diagnostic capabilities, that surely is a prerequisite for anybody working on engines these days. Normally after an engine rebuild, there is 500 mile running in period, with 1 or 2 oil changes, checks and adjustments.  So overall it sounds like a joint effort therefore garage a are not liable, that is why there is no warranty, is this correct?

doubleoseven

frost500 said:

We can you source the parts and not garage a? Do they have no trade accounts with motor factors etc? Also why don't garage a have full diagnostic capabilities, that surely is a prerequisite for anybody working on engines these days. Normally after an engine rebuild, there is 500 mile running in period, with 1 or 2 oil changes, checks and adjustments.  So overall it sounds like a joint effort therefore garage a are not liable, that is why there is no warranty, is this correct?

He's a spanners man, not very good with computers etc, the main supplier he uses for parts didn't have one of the parts we we needed and he then gave up essentially putting things on hold until they came back. But that could have been months. So I researched and found places that had them for him. Because he didn't have a trade account with them, I purchase that part and got them sent. I didn't think at the time this would effect his liability in anyway, because I wasn't expecting any of this to happen. 

He had diagnostic capabilities, but not a dyno to map the ECU. He partners with Garage B for that work. 

Regarding 500 mile run in, that's what others have said, he's quite a small outfit, we didn't discuss a warranty, again, I just wasn't anticipating that it would fail, and obviously in hindsight, there are a lot of things I would do differently. 

I expect by the time this is over, there will be many things he'll do differently also. 

He did say, this was the biggest transaction his business has done so far.