Being pushed out. What to do?

sebtomato

montyrebel said:

are you complaining that you arent getting as big a bonus as last year?

all bonus payments are discretionary

True, but when my performance is at least as good as last year, and the company is at least as profitable as last year, no reason to get a significantly lower package, unless I am being pushed out. Employment lawyer agrees, and perfectly knows bonuses are discretionary (as per my employment letter).

sebtomato

Thrugelmir said:

sebtomato said:

Thrugelmir said:

sebtomato said:

I work for a very large and very profitable company. 

Since lock down begun the world has changed. Even profitable companies have under performing divisions. Local management comes under pressure. Then reverberates down the chain. 

Probably applicable to most companies indeed. However, my global company hasn't been affected by the various lockdowns and is still doing extremely well financially. My work hasn't been affected by the lockdown either.

Unless you work in a senior role in finance (for example) I'd challenge that assertion. Majority of employees really have no idea as to what is going on internally within their organisation. There's a whole range of things that can cause distress or be the cause of restructure. Companies don't undertake major upheaval without good reason. There'll be a trigger. 

I work(ed) for a global company, publicly trading on stock markets, so its financial performance is very visible. There are no financial reasons to restructure, and it's not a restructure anyway or major upheaval. I am targeted for whatever reasons, as opposed to my colleagues or department.

sebtomato

Dox said:

sebtomato said:

Well, in my career, I have worked for quite a few internal large companies (all within the top 10 in the world by market cap).

My current company doesn't give more detailed employment references than just the job title and dates. Many companies do the same name, to avoid liability.

This is rather wishful thinking on your part. Written references are one thing; do you really not understand how many quiet, 'never took place' telephone calls happen to get a rather more detailed reference?

The idea that someone claiming constructive dismissal is going to create a huge stir in the industry/amongst colleagues is an absolute nonsense unless that person is particularly high profile. In large companies, by the law of averages, these things are going to happen pretty regularly. 

Large companies are not going to risk some negative reputation just to save a few thousands pounds, particularly when they believe they were possibly partially at fault.

Happens the whole time!

It's actually an HR policy: HR will only give factual employment references (job title, dates) and prohibits employees to give additional references (in writing or calls). Additionally, if someone was to be contacted for a reference, I would need to provide a name and I am sure I would chose someone favorable...

getmore4less

 People network and socialise outside official work.

Word gets round. 

Dox

sebtomato said:

Dox said:

sebtomato said:

Well, in my career, I have worked for quite a few internal large companies (all within the top 10 in the world by market cap).

My current company doesn't give more detailed employment references than just the job title and dates. Many companies do the same name, to avoid liability.

This is rather wishful thinking on your part. Written references are one thing; do you really not understand how many quiet, 'never took place' telephone calls happen to get a rather more detailed reference?

The idea that someone claiming constructive dismissal is going to create a huge stir in the industry/amongst colleagues is an absolute nonsense unless that person is particularly high profile. In large companies, by the law of averages, these things are going to happen pretty regularly. 

Large companies are not going to risk some negative reputation just to save a few thousands pounds, particularly when they believe they were possibly partially at fault.

Happens the whole time!

It's actually an HR policy: HR will only give factual employment references (job title, dates) and prohibits employees to give additional references (in writing or calls). Additionally, if someone was to be contacted for a reference, I would need to provide a name and I am sure I would chose someone favorable...

And you think people always stick to policies?

sebtomato

Dox said:

sebtomato said:

Dox said:

sebtomato said:

Well, in my career, I have worked for quite a few internal large companies (all within the top 10 in the world by market cap).

My current company doesn't give more detailed employment references than just the job title and dates. Many companies do the same name, to avoid liability.

This is rather wishful thinking on your part. Written references are one thing; do you really not understand how many quiet, 'never took place' telephone calls happen to get a rather more detailed reference?

The idea that someone claiming constructive dismissal is going to create a huge stir in the industry/amongst colleagues is an absolute nonsense unless that person is particularly high profile. In large companies, by the law of averages, these things are going to happen pretty regularly. 

Large companies are not going to risk some negative reputation just to save a few thousands pounds, particularly when they believe they were possibly partially at fault.

Happens the whole time!

It's actually an HR policy: HR will only give factual employment references (job title, dates) and prohibits employees to give additional references (in writing or calls). Additionally, if someone was to be contacted for a reference, I would need to provide a name and I am sure I would chose someone favorable...

And you think people always stick to policies?

Not really the point of this thread. And as I said, for a new employer to call someone to get a reference, they need a name (that I would provide) first. They can't just call the switchboard of a global company or try to second guess who my manager was at a point in time... Global companies are not like a 50 people company where everybody goes down the pub every week.

[Deleted User]

sebtomato said:

Dox said:

sebtomato said:

Dox said:

sebtomato said:

Well, in my career, I have worked for quite a few internal large companies (all within the top 10 in the world by market cap).

My current company doesn't give more detailed employment references than just the job title and dates. Many companies do the same name, to avoid liability.

This is rather wishful thinking on your part. Written references are one thing; do you really not understand how many quiet, 'never took place' telephone calls happen to get a rather more detailed reference?

The idea that someone claiming constructive dismissal is going to create a huge stir in the industry/amongst colleagues is an absolute nonsense unless that person is particularly high profile. In large companies, by the law of averages, these things are going to happen pretty regularly. 

Large companies are not going to risk some negative reputation just to save a few thousands pounds, particularly when they believe they were possibly partially at fault.

Happens the whole time!

Global companies are not like a 50 people company where everybody goes down the pub every week.

What about LinkedIn and other Social Media?

Undervalued

sebtomato said:

mark55man said:

don't resign and move on - tell them if they don't want you then they need to let you go with a package, then negotiate the package (you are obviously good at this stuff!)

if you can live without the salary you can certainly live with base salary and no bonus.  yes this can be a trap in that neither side gives way, but at least in a year the employment picture will be clearer 

organisations are triangles only a few people make it to the top, everyone else either pops out the sides or reaches a level somewhere in the middle.  if you can bear to stand still for a year or 2 you might find different enjoyments and keep your hand in the game. 

plus who knows what could happen, you could get headhunted

I agree: being dismissed would be better, but I can't be bothered to go through that stress for the next 6 months.
I have therefore resigned and going after them for constructive dismissal (when the employer is pushing someone to resign). A breach of trust and confidence can be sufficient, as opposed to some breach of employment contract.
They were very quick to offer an average settlement, but it can be improved. My employment lawyer thinks there are some strong indications of being pushed out, and therefore they would settle well before it goes to employment tribunal.

They may well make further offers to settle and if so I would seriously consider accepting. Constructive dismissal is a big hurdle to climb, particularly against a well resourced large company if they decide to fight. Less than 6% of CD cases succeed if they reach tribunal.

Listen very carefully to the legal advice you receive and don't fall into the natural temptation only to concentrate on the bits you want to hear!

Undervalued

sebtomato said:

Dox said:

sebtomato said:

Dox said:

sebtomato said:

Well, in my career, I have worked for quite a few internal large companies (all within the top 10 in the world by market cap).

My current company doesn't give more detailed employment references than just the job title and dates. Many companies do the same name, to avoid liability.

This is rather wishful thinking on your part. Written references are one thing; do you really not understand how many quiet, 'never took place' telephone calls happen to get a rather more detailed reference?

The idea that someone claiming constructive dismissal is going to create a huge stir in the industry/amongst colleagues is an absolute nonsense unless that person is particularly high profile. In large companies, by the law of averages, these things are going to happen pretty regularly. 

Large companies are not going to risk some negative reputation just to save a few thousands pounds, particularly when they believe they were possibly partially at fault.

Happens the whole time!

It's actually an HR policy: HR will only give factual employment references (job title, dates) and prohibits employees to give additional references (in writing or calls). Additionally, if someone was to be contacted for a reference, I would need to provide a name and I am sure I would chose someone favorable...

And you think people always stick to policies?

Not really the point of this thread. And as I said, for a new employer to call someone to get a reference, they need a name (that I would provide) first. They can't just call the switchboard of a global company or try to second guess who my manager was at a point in time... Global companies are not like a 50 people company where everybody goes down the pub every week.

If you are sticking within the same field they can probably make an educated guess. Grape vines aren't limited to the pub!!

getmore4less

It can be surprising how far the networking can get you.
CV comes in and there is a previous company on the list,
potential new place has people from there already.

John do you know this guy you used to work there,  no but my mate Pete might....

Pete does a bit of digging and comes back with, Oh we let them go last month not sure what happed.

Works the other way to you use your network of people that have moved on to get in the door of the places they went(if they are prepared to back you).