Euro Car Parks fine

FoxGl0ve1998

Hi I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice on a parking charge I've just received. I overstayed the time I'd paid for at a Euro Car park- it was 1.30 for a full day, I thought I'd put enough money in the machine but I mustn't have because I still have the ticket and it has £1 on it. It was 10 days ago though so I can't remember whether I put in the full amount and the meter didn't accept or I just didn't put in the correct amount. It was a genuine oversight as there's no way I'd try to get away with not paying 30p. The cost of the parking charge is £60 if paid within 28 days, which seems excessive to me. Do I have grounds to appeal? The advice said complain to the landowner first but I have no idea who the landowner is as it's a car park in the town centre. 
Thanks in advance for your replies, really appreciate the advice

Redx

The PCN is probably £100 not £60 and includes the 40% discount for early payment , but rises for non paymethe sign will mention the default daily tariff if £100 and it's been that figure for a decade and is not considered excessive in the courts

The Manchester metrolink is similar for fare evasion or underpayment etc , plus £85 was not considered excessive by the Supreme court in the Beavis case, so no traction on that argument at all

It's not a fine , it's an invoice due to underpayment !! A fine is completely different

Please read the newbies FAQ sticky thread near the top of the forum for advice on this common topic

You can ask the council who pays the non domestic business rates , or ask the land registry

Everyone can appeal , winning is a different matter , but you will lose if you tell them your jackanory above

You need to win on a legal technicality , like Beckham did when he was driving and caught speeding in a loan Bentley

Coupon-mad

Do an appeal that includes a cheque for £10 to cover any outstanding tariff - and the minimal cost of getting DVLA data and sending one letter - but state that you are appealing and think the extra 30p must have slipped through the machine and put then to strict proof otherwise.

Then ignore them when they return the cheque, but keep all proof of this exchange, in case they later try a small claim.  That's still rare from ECP but I don't think this is worth you trying to argue at POPLA.  They will not allow an appeal where a tariff was underpaid, but a Judge probably will IMHO, if you do the above to try to resolve the dispute early doors, and keep proof for 6 years just in case.

If you are in Scotland, then do NOT say who parked. 

If in E&W it doesn't matter if you say who was driving.

In both cases, if you move house within 5/6 years tell ECP your new address to avoid the shock of a secret CCJ to the old address.

D_P_Dance

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP., it can cause the scammer extra costs, and in some cases, cancellation. 

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up later this year,

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these companies, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/of these Private Parking Companies.

1505grandad

"Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/of these Private Parking Companies."

@D_P_Dance -  re above  -  are you missing a bit as per your usual:-

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

FoxGl0ve1998

Thank you all for your help. @Coupon-mad thanks for the advice, I will do what you have said! 

FoxGl0ve1998

Hi reposting in this thread as suggested

I got a PCN back in 2020. I was sure I'd paid the full tariff at the time but they are claiming I didn't. Would be grateful if someone could have a look through my defence. Not sure if it's too much waffle? I acknowledged the AOS on 24/11/24 and I've been looking through others defences posted on here. 

2. The facts in this defence come from the Defendant's own knowledge and honest belief.  Conversely, the Claimant sets out a cut-and-paste incoherent and sparse statement of case. The POC appear to be in breach of CPR 16.4, 16PD3 and 16PD7, and fail to "state all facts necessary for the purpose of formulating a complete cause of action". The Defendant is unable, on the basis of the POC, to understand with certainty what case, allegation(s) and what heads of cost are being pursued, making it difficult to respond. However, the vehicle is recognised and it is admitted that the Defendant was the registered keeper and driver.

 

3. [EXPLAIN IN YOUR OWN WORDS...NB: defences are written in the THIRD person as 'the Defendant', not 'I did this' nor 'my/me']. 

The defendant was visiting [Location] for a social gathering on [DATE]. Upon arrival the defendant is certain that they paid the parking tariff in full. The defendant later received a PCN stating that the permit did not cover the date and time of parking, which they appealed immediately. Along with the appeal, the defendant sent a cheque for £10, which covered the administration costs and the alleged outstanding tariff. The defendant later requested the PTD machine record from [DATE], as well as a record of maintenance checks done on the machine and when calibration checks were last made, which the claimant refused to provide.

KeithP

What is the Issue Date on your Claim Form?

Coupon-mad

Why are you showing us this bit?

 [EXPLAIN IN YOUR OWN WORDS...NB: defences are written in the THIRD person as 'the Defendant', not 'I did this' nor 'my/me']. 

Obviously you remove my instructions!

Just add brief info about the circumstances but also deny the allegations. As seen in every thread like this. We win 99% of the time!

I hate providing links to threads because it stops people seeing how to hop around and finding & reading threads for themselves. But in the spirit of the Season, here's one showing what to put for para 3, but please look around and read more (saves us from having to reply with the same stuff on thread after thread):

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81139187/#Comment_81139187

That shows you some 'deny the POC' wording to include in your para 3. Just add a line about the circumstances & facts that you know.

And of course use the whole Template Defence but we don't want to be shown it ... please!

Then follow the first 12 steps in the Template Defence thread so that you don't need to ask about the DQ questions or the laughable Mediation phone call.

We hope that we are only needed again by Defendants at WS & evidence stage next year. The 'first 12 steps' advice saves us all time.

FoxGl0ve1998

@Coupon-mad sorry, I should have deleted that part. Thanks for your advice, I appreciate you taking the time to link for me. I'll rewrite.

@KeithP issue date was 20th Nov.

KeithP

With a Claim Issue Date of 20th November, and having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 23rd December 2024 to file a Defence.

That's nearly two weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look at the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Don't miss the deadline for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.