Civil Enforcement NTK

RobinHill

Ok, so basically CEL put up a bit more of a battle now then? Re. POPLA, agreed, but referencing their lack of POFA 2012 I would think would give them some indication of your approach, and if so then they are silly going to POPLA as that only incurs further expense for them no? I'm assuming that they make their millions from 99% of people who are scared and intimidated by the "fine" and so just simply pay up. They aren't bothered about losing out to the rest.

Fruitcake

The idea of using the NEWBIES template is to let the scammers know you are getting forum help, not reveal the driver's identity, and for BPA members, extract a PoPLA code.
You could if you wish add a one liner to the otherwise unaltered NEWBIES template that the NTK is not PoFA compliant and see what happens.

RobinHill

Having read through the "one size fits all template" I am guessing that things have changed a bit. It now suggests sending receipts / blue badge evidence etc. Last I knew they wouldn't give too hoots about any of that and would simply reply "tough" and cough up. Leaving you to appeal to POPLA. Hence with the Horizon one I attempted to try and make it clear that we would be taking them to task re. POFA 2012 compliance, to which they immediately capitulated.

RobinHill

Are we ok with the following?

Re PCN number: NNNNNNNN

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement. The vehicle was being used to transport a severely disabled person to a health appointment (copy of blue badge attached) and a complaint will be made about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.

If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner.

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to give notice of keeper liability as prescribed by section 9 (2) (f) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

<KEEPER NAME & ADDRESS>

Umkomaas

Hence with the Horizon one I attempted to try and make it clear that we would be taking them to task re. POFA 2012 compliance, to which they immediately capitulated.

I'm afraid you're well behind the curve. Horizon no longer roll over like they once did. And you're assuming that CEL will actually read your initial appeal. Almost all PPCs routinely refuse appeals. It's a bit like you refusing to accept your wages from your employer!

The purpose of the the template initial appeal to a BPA AOS operator is primarily fourfold:

1. Letting the PPC know you're receiving forum support and you won't be a pushover. 

2. Using it prevents newbies from blowing off their toes in their anxiousness to tell their story and in the process, identifying the driver. 

3. You want a POPLA verification code. 

4. It shows a Judge, should it get to court, that you've engaged in a process to try to resolve the issue. 

If you're lucky enough to get a cancellation as a result of the template, great stuff, suggest you get yourself down to your corner shop and buy yourself a Lottery ticket!

RobinHill

The Horizon one was early this year. It doesn't seem to make sense to me (ie. cost) in the PPC letting it go to POPLA if they are aware that we know that their NTK isn't POFA 2012 compliant? They make their millions from those that simply pay up straight away. What am I missing here? Either way are we happy with my amended first appeal?

KeithP

RobinHill said:

It doesn't seem to make sense to me (ie. cost) in the PPC letting it go to POPLA if they are aware that we know that their NTK isn't POFA 2012 compliant?

What cost? There is no cost there until they decide to contest a PoPLA appeal.

RobinHill

I recall coupon_mad saying it cost the PPC £60 to take it to POPLA. One guy was getting the NTK's almost deliberately just to take it to POPLA so as to cost the PPC the £60 for doing so.

KeithP

RobinHill said:

I recall coupon_mad saying it cost the PPC £60 to take it to POPLA. 

Your recollection facility is flawed.

RobinHill

Nope definitely not. I will try and dig it out. You come across a very arrogant KeithP ... how do you know 100% that my recollection is flawed. Idiot.