Electrician charging for fault that he 'couldn't' fix that has subsequently been fixed.

EmilyH285

Hi (sorry for the length of the post!).
We hired a local electrician to repair a faulty wire that went from the kitchen wall to an island in the middle of the kitchen supplying power to the fridge/freezer console unit.
He initially came round to inspect the issue, and do some fault finding, and after this, said that he had encountered many similar problems like this and was fairly confident he could fix it, but that it would need two people to remove the wire.
He then came back with an apprentice a week later, and within half an hour of being there, determined that he couldn't fix it, as between both of them, they were unable to remove the wire from the duct. This meant all they could do to fix this problem was recommended more work from them. They then spent another two and a half hours, cutting off this faulty wire at both ends, and reconnecting one plug socket to ring main. During this time, the main electrician went back to his house twice to get equipment that he had not brought with him (a 5/10 minute walk there and back). After 'fixing' this other issue, they then left it so that the kitchen cupboards could not be screwed back in correctly as they could no longer sit flush to the wall as they had done before. Subsequently, between myself and my partner, we have managed to remove the wire that 'could not be removed' and have had a family friend who is an electrician fix it (he lives over 2 hours away so this is why we went with someone local to begin with).
At the moment, they are charging us for over 4 hours of work (between the initial fault finding time and the 'work') at around £45p/h. They have also said that the apprentice will also be charged at £45p/h.
Once they realised that they couldn't 'remove the faulty wire' the work that was left to complete did not seem to need two people. Although I wasn't downstairs watching them, I could hear all that they were saying, and it seemed like the main guy was doing the work, and it was the apprentices job to pass him tools. He also did not come to the job with all the equipment, as I mentioned before, he had to return home several times to get the equipment needed. Now I'm obviously not an expert, but I'm assuming that an electrician should have all the tools he needs to reconnect a wire to a circuit when he first arrives at the job?
Please can anyone advise on this situation? I know they have done some work which we will need to pay for and that is fine, but they didn't fix the original fault, spent 2.5 hours connecting one wire back into a circuit, badly, leaving us with more work to return our kitchen to normal. Is it also the case that the apprentice should cost the same amount as the electrician who owns the company?
Many thanks in advance for any help.

JJ_Egan

<Is it also the case that the apprentice should cost the same amount as the electrician who owns the company?>

YES you are paying for the job not a specific employee .

Suggest sending an LBA letter before action ( google for templates ).

EmilyH285

Ok, fair enough I understand that. I guess my issue isn't with paying him the 'right amount', it is for paying him for the time where only one electrician was needed, and he was acting as dog body, passing tools, and being taught things on the job.

Aylesbury_Duck

But presumably the job was faster for having two of them there, so the hourly rate might be double, but the time halved.

Have you paid them anything yet?  If not, now's the time to query their charge.  If you have, it's up to you whether you want to ask them for some back, or pursue them for what you think is the excessive portion of what you've paid.

EmilyH285

We haven't paid them anything yet. All the apprentice was doing was passing tools and being shown how things worked and why you do things in a certain way. And I completely understand that he needs to learn, it's how the job works, but his presence didn't speed the work up significantly. If anything with the main electrician explaining things to him before he was doing anything, it probably cancels out the time gained from him being able to pass tools!

DoaM

How much did it cost you to rectify the faults that they caused? (e.g. removing the old wire to allow the cupboards to sit back flush). Also, did what they did actually fix the problem you called them out for? They're supposed to provide the service with sufficient care and skill.

EmilyH285

Fortunately we have a friend that is a handyman so it just cost us a crate of beer as a thank you for his time (about half an hour). They did not fix the original problem, claiming that it couldn't be done, although we have now managed to have it fixed.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

OP was you advised of the costs beforehand?

If not they can only charge what is reasonable, £45 p/h may be reasonable for an electrician, however I don't think paying the same rate for an apprentice is for obvious reasons. 

Regarding the work it must be carried out with due care and skill, the electrician might be due something for attending and inspecting the fault. 

What was the difficulty in removing the wire that would require two people? 

If you don't pay the electrician can take you to small claims, offering something shows you are reasonable but I wouldn't be paying for 4 hours work plus another £45 p/h for the apprentice. 

EmilyH285

We knew the cost of the electrician, however were not told that there would be an additional cost for the extra person. The only work that required two people was removing the faulty wire (the first 30 mins of work). Connecting a single socket back into a circuit wouldn't take two people (you also couldn't fit two people into the space that they were working in!). 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

EmilyH285 said:

We knew the cost of the electrician, however were not told that there would be an additional cost for the extra person. The only work that required two people was removing the faulty wire (the first 30 mins of work). Connecting a single socket back into a circuit wouldn't take two people (you also couldn't fit two people into the space that they were working in!). 

Sorry what I meant was what aspect of the job required two people? Moving heavy objects? Sheer force to yank the cable free? 

If the cable really did need 2 people to pull it out you can't really expect 2 people to attend but one of them leave once the two man part is done.  

That said as above I think £45 p/h for the apprentice is unreasonable. 

Regarding the work being done to a satisfactory standard, typically it's proper to give the tradesman a chance to correct the issue, although if doing so would cause you significant inconvenience (or they was simply unable to) you do have the right to a price reduction. 

shaun_from_Africa

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said: 

That said as above I think £45 p/h for the apprentice is unreasonable. 

I wonder how much of that £45 per hour the apprentice would actually get to see.
If they are a proper apprentice and on the UK minimum wage then they can be paid as little as £3.90 an hour and depending on their age, up to £8.72.
I cant imagine that there is any chance in hell that they would be getting anywhere close to the full £45.