UK CPM (Car Park Management) PCN

13zero8

Hi all,
Keeper has just received a Parking Charge Notice from UK CPM in the post (no ticket affixed to keeper's vehicle). It was delivered in a timely manner - within a week of the date they claim the charge became due.

Bit of background - it happen on a private road, the vehicle pulled up and stopped for 15-20 mins to unload some goods, not blocking anyone or anything. Driver did leave the vehicle for part of that time but someone was always present inside the vehicle.

Keeper will appeal using the template from the newbies thread, but just wanted to ask if there is anything on the ticket (non conformity etc) worth mentioning in the appeal.

A couple of things spring to the keeper's mind, but not sure if worth mentioning, or even a good idea to do so, at this stage:
1) No mention of parking charges not having been paid in full, as per requirements of POFA
2) How can they issue a "Parking Charge" if according to their Parking Charge Notice they issued it because there is "No Parking On Access Roads". If there is no parking allowed how can they charge you to park there?
3) The PCN seems to go from referring to the driver to then referring to the keeper... i.e. "The driver became liable for a parking charge..." and then "By parking in this restricted area YOU are bound to these terms and liable to pay a charge..."

Would be interested if anything else in the PCN should be mentioned on first appeal to UK CPM.

Here it is...

Coupon-mad

If you were unloading with authority of a resident or business there, simply try Plan A (you know, complaint to the landowner as stated in the NEWBIES thread). As you will know by reading the sticky thread, there is no appeal. 

But there is ALWAYS landowner complaint.  And a win in court later on, if not.

KeithP

sincs said:

2) How can they issue a "Parking Charge" if according to their Parking Charge Notice they issued it because there is "No Parking On Access Roads". If there is no parking allowed how can they charge you to park there?

Keep that point in mind. Should this ever get to court, then that will be a useful point.
Take pictures of those signs now - before they change them.

13zero8

Coupon-mad said:

If you were unloading with authority of a resident or business there, simply try Plan A (you know, complaint to the landowner as stated in the NEWBIES thread). As you will know by reading the sticky thread, there is no appeal. 

But there is ALWAYS landowner complaint.  And a win in court later on, if not.

The problem is, the landowner is a massive housing association. It's hard enough getting them to respond when you've got water pouring through your flat drowning everyone living below you, let alone getting them to react to a complaint about a parking ticket. 

Coupon-mad

Dunno, I have a cousin who does that job for a Housing company and she cancels PCNs for people who complain. I told her to push to get the PPC removed altogether (yep, it's UKCPM!).  They have an arrangement with most clients that means the landlord/HA can cancel a PCN.

13zero8

UPDATE:

The keeper complained to the landowner and received the following reply:

Good Afternoon,

I have looked into this for you and you was Parked in the roadway where parking is restricted, There is even a sign directly by where your Vehicle is parked explaining this.

On this note the Ticket was correctly issued by the Parking enforcement CPM.

I can assure that the ticket was not issued by a CCTV operator and was in fact issued by a Parking warden at the location who found the Vehicle parked where it was at the time.

I attach a Picture of the Vehicle at the time.

I therefore cannot request that the ticket be cancelled due to the correct issuing.

You are although well within your rights to appeal the Ticket directly with CPM who’s details are on the letter you would have been issued.

I trust this clarifies our position on this matter.

So the warden didn't approach the vehicle to ask the driver to move on, or didn't issue a PCN and affix it to the vehicle (I assume because people were sitting in the vehicle at the time). He just took a photo from distance and walked away, so a PCN could be issued later and sent by post.

Is this normal or allowable practice?

D_P_Dance

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP., it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and in some cases, cancellation.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, and an independent appeals service will be set up,

opefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/of these Private Parking Companies.

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

Le_Kirk

I have looked into this for you and you was  were Parked in the roadway where parking is restricted, 

Let's ignore the awful grammar

So the warden didn't approach the vehicle to ask the driver to move on, or didn't issue a PCN and affix it to the vehicle (I assume because people were sitting in the vehicle at the time). He just took a photo from distance and walked away, so a PCN could be issued later and sent by post.
Is this normal or allowable practice?

If the "warden" had approached you and asked you to move on, how would they have made any money that day by issuing a PCN to you?  It's not about keeping parking spaces clear it's about profit.

13zero8

D_P_Dance said:

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP.

Yep, already on my to do list.

Le_Kirk said:

If the "warden" had approached you and asked you to move on, how would they have made any money that day by issuing a PCN to you?  It's not about keeping parking spaces clear it's about profit.

Precisely. But is this "allowed"? As in, is this a deviation away from guidance or rules that will allow me to use, or is worth using, in my next reply to the landowner?
Unless they are using CCTV, are they allowed issue PCNs using photos that wardens have taken from a distance when he/she was not prevented from issuing a PCN to the driver/vehicle at the time?
I've searched but can't find a direct answer to this.

Le_Kirk

It is standard practice, it is an unregulated industry despite BPA and IPC having Codes of Practice, they were written to suit themselves.  You might argue it successfully in front of a judge.

Coupon-mad

It's what they do at the moment.

Please give your public comments on the draft new Code of Practice the Government has put out for comments this month, if you share my view that of there is a 'warden' (employee) on site then PPCs should NOT be able to obtain keeper data as a shortcut and should be issuing PCN to the car.  This would be consistent with Council rules and would mean fewer scam PCNs like yours having to go to court.