No will left and died intestate...now family has imploded!

endaf

dresdendave said:

As the brother lived in the house with the father, is it possible he was registered as a joint owner? Check with the Land registry, if he was then he now owns the whole house outright.

No definitely only owned outright by my father. thats been confirmed by the probate solicitor 

MoneySeeker1

Well you only have his word for it that "I own everything according to my solicitor".

I bet he hasnt even provided proof to you of having seen a solicitor - let alone having a letter from a solicitor saying "We believe you - as our client - have greater entitlement because of x/y/z".

He could be bluffing for all you know.

Has "his solicitor" actually written you a letter saying "It's all my clients - because......"? It doesn't sound like it from what you say. Even if "his solicitor" has indeed written such a letter - many solicitors will write letters they know perfectly well are in error - just because their client has paid them some money to do so. I think many of us have been on the receiving end at some point of a "nasty letter sent by solicitor - just as a threatener", but it's clear what has really happened and the solicitor isn't actually "on their side". I know I've had one of those letters before now myself - and, when I thought about it, even the language the solicitor had used revealed the solicitor knew very well it was a "try-on" by their client and had just done been done for the sake of getting some income from that client. In fact - a close read of the letter revealed that the instigator wasn't nearly as bright as they made out they were - or they would have "seen through" the way the language used was just a pacifier to them and not "for real".

endaf

MoneySeeker1 said:

Well you only have his word for it that "I own everything according to my solicitor".

I bet he hasnt even provided proof to you of having seen a solicitor - let alone having a letter from a solicitor saying "We believe you - as our client - have greater entitlement because of x/y/z".

He could be bluffing for all you know.

Has "his solicitor" actually written you a letter saying "It's all my clients - because......"? It doesn't sound like it from what you say. Even if "his solicitor" has indeed written such a letter - many solicitors will write letters they know perfectly well are in error - just because their client has paid them some money to do so. I think many of us have been on the receiving end at some point of a "nasty letter sent by solicitor - just as a threatener", but it's clear what has really happened and the solicitor isn't actually "on their side". I know I've had one of those letters before now myself - and, when I thought about it, even the language the solicitor had used revealed the solicitor knew very well it was a "try-on" by their client and had just done been done for the sake of getting some income from that client. 

All this happened late last night out of the blue, i immediately asked him to get his solicitor to write to both my sister and I for us to respond to. I half suspect he may be trying it on as when i challenged him on what  legal terms did the solicitor use about these "additional rights" he replied "oh i cant remember now he mentioned loads of different things" My sister and I have an appointment next week with a solicitor but i just wanted to see if anything like this has occurred on the site before so I can try and work what the hell he's up to! 

theoretica

endaf said:

As for the property, we recently were informed that we’re just waiting on deeds to be officially registered under all 3 siblings but as with all government bureaucracy it may be delayed. I would assume that if it’s registered under all of us, then his argument becomes nul and void? My sister and I can then force a sale of the property and proceeds shared out equally between us 3?

Getting the deeds transferred to the three of you and then selling seems like a complication - can't the solicitor arrange sale without ever putting you (and especially brother) on the deeds as that seems like it will give him more power.  Who actually has the letters of administration?

endaf

theoretica said:

endaf said:

As for the property, we recently were informed that we’re just waiting on deeds to be officially registered under all 3 siblings but as with all government bureaucracy it may be delayed. I would assume that if it’s registered under all of us, then his argument becomes nul and void? My sister and I can then force a sale of the property and proceeds shared out equally between us 3?

Getting the deeds transferred to the three of you and then selling seems like a complication - can't the solicitor arrange sale without ever putting you (and especially brother) on the deeds as that seems like it will give him more power.  Who actually has the letters of administration?

We hired a solicitor before the lockdown to administer the estate for us and sort out the probate etc. I may well contact that solicitor to see if we can put a hold on the registration to land registry but i it may well be too late....

xylophone

My brother had lived with my father for the past 20 years and apparently for no rent. On the property he ran a small S/E business as a mechanic on a garage that my father owned.

I fail to see how this equates to financial dependence on your father!

The fact that your father chose not to charge rent did not make his able bodied son a dependent.

If the garage stands in your late father's name then it forms part of his estate.

If this property is to be sold it makes no sense to transfer it into joint names.

To whom have Letters of Administration been granted?

Brynsam

endaf said:

MoneySeeker1 said:

Well you only have his word for it that "I own everything according to my solicitor".

I bet he hasnt even provided proof to you of having seen a solicitor - let alone having a letter from a solicitor saying "We believe you - as our client - have greater entitlement because of x/y/z".

He could be bluffing for all you know.

Has "his solicitor" actually written you a letter saying "It's all my clients - because......"? It doesn't sound like it from what you say. Even if "his solicitor" has indeed written such a letter - many solicitors will write letters they know perfectly well are in error - just because their client has paid them some money to do so. I think many of us have been on the receiving end at some point of a "nasty letter sent by solicitor - just as a threatener", but it's clear what has really happened and the solicitor isn't actually "on their side". I know I've had one of those letters before now myself - and, when I thought about it, even the language the solicitor had used revealed the solicitor knew very well it was a "try-on" by their client and had just done been done for the sake of getting some income from that client. 

All this happened late last night out of the blue, i immediately asked him to get his solicitor to write to both my sister and I for us to respond to. I half suspect he may be trying it on as when i challenged him on what  legal terms did the solicitor use about these "additional rights" he replied "oh i cant remember now he mentioned loads of different things" My sister and I have an appointment next week with a solicitor but i just wanted to see if anything like this has occurred on the site before so I can try and work what the hell he's up to! 

I can understand your knee jerk reaction, but each case has to be considered on its merits. There are plenty of people speculating but until the actual facts are clear, everything is a 'might', 'could possibly be...' and so on. 'Failing to see' how something could be the case when the facts aren't known is quite simply misleading. Your brother might have a claim, he might not. Wait and see whether you hear from his solicitor and if so, what they have to say.

Solicitors don't generally write letters 'just for the sake of getting some income' - usually the letter is sent at the client's insistence on the 'give it a go' principle, however strongly they are advised they are on a loser which will cost them.

xylophone

Failing to see' how something could be the case when the facts aren't known is quite simply misleading.

The OP has stated that her father died intestate.

Thee are rules of intestacy as a starting point.

The intestacy does not leave the brother without provision.

The brother is capable of work.

The brother is said to have had bouts of depression - so did Winston Churchill! This does not equate to having a claim to be entitled to the whole of the estate.

Therefore I do indeed fail to understand his claim.

Would you care to explain how my statement of my point of view is misleading?

endaf

theoretica said:

endaf said:

As for the property, we recently were informed that we’re just waiting on deeds to be officially registered under all 3 siblings but as with all government bureaucracy it may be delayed. I would assume that if it’s registered under all of us, then his argument becomes nul and void? My sister and I can then force a sale of the property and proceeds shared out equally between us 3?

Getting the deeds transferred to the three of you and then selling seems like a complication - can't the solicitor arrange sale without ever putting you (and especially brother) on the deeds as that seems like it will give him more power.  Who actually has the letters of administration?

Well my sister and I instructed the solicitor to sort out the estate as my brother (at that time) was more than happy to leave it to us to sort everything out and didn’t want to get involved (but I ensured he was copied into everything and letters updating all 3 of us)

Savvy_Sue

endaf said:

Well my sister and I instructed the solicitor to sort out the estate as my brother (at that time) was more than happy to leave it to us to sort everything out and didn’t want to get involved (but I ensured he was copied into everything and letters updating all 3 of us)

That answers a question I had: WHO instructed the solicitor to sort out the estate. I have my answer. That solicitor was instructed by you and your sister, and I do not see why you and your sister need to engage a different solicitor. I'd speak to that original solicitor, ask if they are the ones telling your brother what he wants to hear, and if not, ask them to write to your brother stating that YOU (ie you and your sister) will be following the terms of the will, selling the house and the garage, and splitting the proceeds. 

Only if it is THAT solicitor telling your brother what he wants to hear do you need a separate solicitor. 

Edited to add: I'd be surprised if the original solicitor was saying these things, he was instructed by YOU and YOUR SISTER, presumably you signed to say you'd pay his bill (from the estate), and your brother is NOT HIS CLIENT. While the solicitor has agreed to copy him into correspondence, it's YOU (pl) giving the instructions.