Neighbouring /bordering unadopted road issues

House_on_the_corner

Jeepers_Creepers said:

I think Adrian has it covered in his post above.

It's obviously impossible for us to know from this side of the screen just how bad this dust can be, but I can imagine it could be a bludy nuisance at times - quite unpleasant, and unreasonable to have to contend with. And I think that would be the issue used in trying to resolve it - certainly the repeated 'nuisance', and possibly even a potential detriment to 'health' (no-one in your family suffers from asthma or similar, do they?)

You'd have to make a good case, tho', and for this you'd need solid evidence. Is the dust visible enough to be caught on a camera aimed along the fence top when a car passes? If so, that's step one. Step 2 is to catalogue the number of times this happens in a normal day. If the cars do throw up plumes of fine and gritty dust on a regular basis - and cars from 20 households will surely do this a lot - then I think you have a reasonable case. By 'reasonable' I mean I think your case is reasonable, but whether a stretched council could find the time or inclination to act is another matter.

Tarmac is not the only solution, tho' - there are better hardcore coverings than the existing one that'll compact down more firmly and should reduce the dust throw-off. At some point the road will need some upkeep, and that could be the time to suggest a better surface even if they won't stretch to tarmac. And there's also the option of planting thick hedging along the annoying stretch - laurel should catch most of this, and it wouldn't have to be too high - perhaps 8'?

With 20 houses, you'd think they'd want a better road?! 

Do you have Legal Protection on your house insurance? If so call them up for advice. If you are brave enough and if you can collate evidence of actual nuisance - visible clouds of dust coupled with similar dust covering your windows and cills, for example - I'd love to see what would happen if you (after putting the car owners on notice) began submitting fortnightly window-cleaning bills followed up by a moneyclaim.gov when they 'pfffft'...

I fear that is fantasy land, tho'... :-(

 

Thank you for this. All very sensible advice. Yes it’s very visible and many residents in the road see it and have said they feel very sorry for us. Many of the residents want it laid in tarmac but it’s not a majority and the money isn’t there. I gather the residents can’t agree on a solution. The problem is It’s only the FRONT of their houses that are effected by the dust whereas it’s our main garden. They had it re-surfaced not too long ago apparently and admitted to using the wrong material which has just made it worse 🤯. I pray for rain most days now so there is no dust!

Davesnave

We don't know your location, but I live in the country next to a private road accessing 16 properties  and I appreciate that some people will never obey speed limits or agree to any restrictions on what they see as their personal freedoms. It's the way a few people are. I worry about grandchildren and pets, but I accept there's nothing guaranteed to deal with all the van drivers and others who speed. I can train the kids!

Two people on our road have complained now for the past 20 years or so about tractors using it and shaking their property, but there is no solution, as the route is an old prescribed route to fields where it would be reasonable to predict heavy machinery would be used.

Similarly, an unmade road viewed in winter will be different from the way it is in summer, with no rain for weeks, but it's fair to assume that some will realise this and choose whether it's a down-side they can live with or not. All properties have them. If it isn't dust, it might be intermittent surface water flooding, which is something that's caught out another of our residents who bought in a dry period and didn't notice where all the hard surfaces led!

AdrianC

House_on_the_corner said:

Thank you. Yes it’s very upsetting that we are expected to pay out serious amounts of ££££‘S just to be able to use our garden without getting thick clouds of dust in our food and hair, or worse, shards of stones in our face

As I explained, that would be covered by environmental health.

But, as others have since pointed out, there may be perfectly effective mitigations you can do on your side.

BUT... outside of that... if you want them to actually change their property to suit you, in such a way as makes no difference to them, then I don't feel a hefty contribution towards the costs (short- and long-term) of doing so is unreasonable.

Also, If the residents all just drove according to the 10mph speed limit that they set themselves then it also wouldn’t be so bad but, even despite our pleas, they still zoom up as if on purpose.

Which further makes me question your guesstimate of 2m width.
A normal parking space is 2.4m wide. Care to post some pics?

House_on_the_corner

AdrianC said:

House_on_the_corner said:

Thank you. Yes it’s very upsetting that we are expected to pay out serious amounts of ££££‘S just to be able to use our garden without getting thick clouds of dust in our food and hair, or worse, shards of stones in our face

As I explained, that would be covered by environmental health.

But, as others have since pointed out, there may be perfectly effective mitigations you can do on your side.

BUT... outside of that... if you want them to actually change their property to suit you, in such a way as makes no difference to them, then I don't feel a hefty contribution towards the costs (short- and long-term) of doing so is unreasonable.

Also, If the residents all just drove according to the 10mph speed limit that they set themselves then it also wouldn’t be so bad but, even despite our pleas, they still zoom up as if on purpose.

Which further makes me question your guesstimate of 2m width.
A normal parking space is 2.4m wide. Care to post some pics?

Thank you but I didn’t think specific measurements was really relevant as I’m not looking for a quote nor did I say I wasn't prepared to pay towards it. Yes it is actually 2.4m wide to be specific. Just the width of one car with grass verge either side.

AdrianC

So we've already added nearly 25% to the surface area...

If you're demanding other people do expensive things to their property to suit your preferences - which is exactly what you are doing - then having a rough clue as to the order of magnitude of expense, and a rough suggestion of what proportion you are willing to pay, is far from unreasonable.

If we go with £10k as a wet-finger guesstimate, then split that between 20 properties, that's £500 per property.
A suggestion that you'll cover £500-worth of the work, too, is not likely to be met that warmly by the people who you've basically just waved £25-each at.
A suggestion that you'll cover half the cost is far more likely to be met warmly - but you're still asking everybody else to put up £250 for very little benefit to themselves.

One other thing to consider... Is this the only access to those properties? Because, if not, then may tarmacing it lead to their road being used much more as a rat-run cut-through...? That not only is a disincentive to them, but is not going to improve your life.

House_on_the_corner

AdrianC said:

So we've already added nearly 25% to the surface area...

If you're demanding other people do expensive things to their property to suit your preferences - which is exactly what you are doing - then having a rough clue as to the order of magnitude of expense, and a rough suggestion of what proportion you are willing to pay, is far from unreasonable.

If we go with £10k as a wet-finger guesstimate, then split that between 20 properties, that's £500 per property.
A suggestion that you'll cover £500-worth of the work, too, is not likely to be met that warmly by the people who you've basically just waved £25-each at.
A suggestion that you'll cover half the cost is far more likely to be met warmly - but you're still asking everybody else to put up £250 for very little benefit to themselves.

One other thing to consider... Is this the only access to those properties? Because, if not, then may tarmacing it lead to their road being used much more as a rat-run cut-through...? That not only is a disincentive to them, but is not going to improve your life.

I don’t see where in this thread I’ve demanded anything?? You seem to have taken this thread very personally? Why would you assume there is another road out? Why are you so concerned about costs and how much I may or may not have offered to pay? You surely have no idea. It’s already been said Tarmac is not wanted regardless of costs. I’m trying to proactively find an amicable Cost effective solution / compromise to a very upsetting problem that actually does effect everyone on the road. I don’t think that is unreasonable at all and nothing anyone else wouldn’t do if in our situation. Now I come to think of it, there is actually an AdrianC living on this road, what a coincidence! 

AdrianC

House_on_the_corner said:

I don’t see where in this thread I’ve demanded anything??

Tarmac...?

Why would you assume there is another road out?

I'm not assuming anything. I'm asking. Because, if there is, it may well add another reason they don't want tarmac.

Why are you so concerned about costs and how much I may or may not have offered to pay? You surely have no idea.

I'm trying to help you understand how to achieve your aim.

If the assistance of posters here is unwelcome, that's fine - but I was assuming that was why you posted.

If this is your way of approaching constructive help, I think I may have a clue as to where negotiations with your neighbours are breaking down.

Now I come to think of it, there is actually an AdrianC living on this road, what a coincidence! 

Ah, you're funny.

FWIW, the road to our back gate is indeed unadopted - but with just three other properties on it, and not a hope in hell of even reaching 10mph on it.

EmmyLou30

Would a letter to all the residents that use the dusty track help do you think - if you say people in your garden have been hit in the face by flying debris and you are now making them aware of the potential hazard. Failure to remedy the situation will lead to a claim for damages in the future should it happen again (as they are now aware of the hazard they are legally obligated to mitigate it right? or face the consequences). Might make them pay attention, might not, but still worth a go. In the meantime I would be fitting a sprinkler to my fence/wall to keep the track damp on hot dry days and reduce the dust cloud. Not very water wise but it's better than having your garden out of bounds and windows shut in summer.  

House_on_the_corner

EmmyLou30 said:

Would a letter to all the residents that use the dusty track help do you think - if you say people in your garden have been hit in the face by flying debris and you are now making them aware of the potential hazard. Failure to remedy the situation will lead to a claim for damages in the future should it happen again (as they are now aware of the hazard they are legally obligated to mitigate it right? or face the consequences). Might make them pay attention, might not, but still worth a go. In the meantime I would be fitting a sprinkler to my fence/wall to keep the track damp on hot dry days and reduce the dust cloud. Not very water wise but it's better than having your garden out of bounds and windows shut in summer.  

Thank you. Yes we emailed them to let them know it had happened and politely request again that residents please slow down when driving passed the house. Many of the residents are lovely and feel very sorry for us but the residents committee just responded to say “sorry that happened to you but You should have known to expect it living next to an unmade road”. They are probably right but not a very amicable neighbourly response and didn’t indicate any concern or willingness to help hence why I’m try to find possible solutions to propose or that we can afford to do ourselves for just this section.

House_on_the_corner

House_on_the_corner said:

EmmyLou30 said:

Would a letter to all the residents that use the dusty track help do you think - if you say people in your garden have been hit in the face by flying debris and you are now making them aware of the potential hazard. Failure to remedy the situation will lead to a claim for damages in the future should it happen again (as they are now aware of the hazard they are legally obligated to mitigate it right? or face the consequences). Might make them pay attention, might not, but still worth a go. In the meantime I would be fitting a sprinkler to my fence/wall to keep the track damp on hot dry days and reduce the dust cloud. Not very water wise but it's better than having your garden out of bounds and windows shut in summer.  

Thank you. Yes we emailed them to let them know it had happened and politely request again that residents please slow down when driving passed the house. Many of the residents are lovely and feel very sorry for us but the residents committee just responded to say “sorry that happened to you but You should have known to expect it living next to an unmade road”. They are probably right but not a very amicable neighbourly response and didn’t indicate any concern or willingness to help hence why I’m try to find possible solutions to propose or that we can afford to do ourselves for just this section.

The sprinkler idea is a good temporary option. Thank you for that!