Driving lessons after driving for 20yrs?

DoaM

onlyfoolsandparking said:

It's impossible to struggle with blistering acceleration available  

That Penny-Farthing of yours must have some go.  

Biggus_Dickus

onlyfoolsandparking said:

At the risk of sounding like 'It's not like the old days' the standard of driving these days is terrible, of course being a biker like yourself DoaM I ALWAYS expect all drivers to be bad and when I'm out on bike I'm not dissapointed, on the plus side merging onto motorway on my bike well It's impossible to struggle with blistering acceleration available  

As someone who has had a driving licence since the stone-age I’m tempted to take a slightly different view.

I think the general driving standard of most motorists is as good, if not better, than it’s ever been.

However, there has always been a proportion of lunatics behind the wheel,...that has never changed. What really  has changed is the actual level of sheer lunacy that is now apparent.

What was bad/dangerous driving years ago has now been elevated to something approaching lethal, almost death-wish driving. The nutters are even nuttier these days...undoubtedly due to cheap, high-powered cars that didn’t proliferate years ago;...imho, of course.

  

 

 

DoaM

Actually, if you expand on your point ... the proportion of nutters may well be the same as aeons ago, it's just that there are far more vehicles on the road now so this proportion represents a far greater number of people/cars, thus they are more noticeable.

shaun_from_Africa

DoaM said:

If it's not safe to proceed, you stop. If it's not safe to stop absolutely (e.g. vehicles behind you closing rapidly) then you use the hard shoulder as an escape route and then stop. (That's how I'd answer such a question).  

Do the upgraded "smart" motorways have any hard shoulders at the end of the slip roads? I know that they've done away with a lot of them but I've not driven on one of them yet.

onlyfoolsandparking

Some do some don't but 'smart' motorways in general, well that's a whole other topic!
Near me there is a slip road that puts you right in the 3rd lane of the motorway, I believe It's quite unique and there is only a couple of these type of entry roads in the whole of the UK (could be wrong on that, never checked it) that can be a challenge if your car is let's say like mine one that Fred Flintstone would be proud of but still manageable (especially for modern fast acceleration cars) with a little foresight or alternatively turn on 'launch control' at the start of the sliproad and then your fine. 

Ultimately all driving requires a fair amount of 'thinking' and if your capable of that then no road/motorway should present any problems, I agree about the nutters having always been around and there is just more cars on the roads now, A LOT MORE!!

Sandtree

DoaM said:

If it's not safe to proceed, you stop. If it's not safe to stop absolutely (e.g. vehicles behind you closing rapidly) then you use the hard shoulder as an escape route and then stop. (That's how I'd answer such a question).  

From memory, and it could very well be wrong as we are talking over 20 years ago, he said to continue into the hard shoulder.

The rational being that attempting to join traffic moving at 60mph from stationary when potentially other cars are coming from behind at 60 mph also trying to join is far more dangerous than going into the hard shoulder.

When pulled over by the police once when I was 20 (no car tax) on a dual carriage way they also said to get up to speed in the hard shoulder before attempting to join the road and whatever I do don't attempt to join from stationary which would have fairly strong parallels to the advice.

In practice I've never had an issue joining a motorway other than when its become a parking lot which is a different kettle of fish anyway.

Biggus_Dickus

DoaM said:

Actually, if you expand on your point ... the proportion of nutters may well be the same as aeons ago, it's just that there are far more vehicles on the road now so this proportion represents a far greater number of people/cars, thus they are more noticeable.

I couldn’t agree more,...they certainly are more noticeable,...particularly as they rush headlong into oblivion. Carbon-ceramic brakes are brilliant,...but of little value if you hit the back end of an Artic truck at 85mph.

I observed a Porsche 911 do exactly that on the M6 jct-24 just a few months ago. The car was almost obliterated but thankfully (to the best of my knowledge) the driver wasn’t.

 

AdrianC

Biggus_Dickus said:

onlyfoolsandparking said:

At the risk of sounding like 'It's not like the old days' the standard of driving these days is terrible, of course being a biker like yourself DoaM I ALWAYS expect all drivers to be bad and when I'm out on bike I'm not dissapointed, on the plus side merging onto motorway on my bike well It's impossible to struggle with blistering acceleration available  

As someone who has had a driving licence since the stone-age I’m tempted to take a slightly different view.

I think the general driving standard of most motorists is as good, if not better, than it’s ever been.

However, there has always been a proportion of lunatics behind the wheel,...that has never changed. What really  has changed is the actual level of sheer lunacy that is now apparent.

What was bad/dangerous driving years ago has now been elevated to something approaching lethal, almost death-wish driving. The nutters are even nuttier these days...undoubtedly due to cheap, high-powered cars that didn’t proliferate years ago;...imho, of course.

I'm not sure I agree.

The proportion of absolute flat-out balls-to-the-wall wellymerchants hasn't increased. I think, if anything it's decreased. IME, it's fairly rare to come across somebody absolutely giving it berries, thraping it as hard as it'll go.

What HAS increased, massively, is the proportion of those blithering along with their brains in neutral. They're EVERYWHERE, encouraged by the "I'm not speeding and I'm not on the phone, ergo I must be safe" mindset driven by monomaniacal road safety messages... and heavily enabled by pervasive active safety tech. Cars tell them when they drift across lines. They tell them when they're getting too close to the car in front. They tell them what the speed limit is. They tell them where they're going. The driver does not need to actually think. So they don't.

Biggus_Dickus

AdrianC said:

Biggus_Dickus said:

onlyfoolsandparking said:

At the risk of sounding like 'It's not like the old days' the standard of driving these days is terrible, of course being a biker like yourself DoaM I ALWAYS expect all drivers to be bad and when I'm out on bike I'm not dissapointed, on the plus side merging onto motorway on my bike well It's impossible to struggle with blistering acceleration available  

As someone who has had a driving licence since the stone-age I’m tempted to take a slightly different view.

I think the general driving standard of most motorists is as good, if not better, than it’s ever been.

However, there has always been a proportion of lunatics behind the wheel,...that has never changed. What really  has changed is the actual level of sheer lunacy that is now apparent.

What was bad/dangerous driving years ago has now been elevated to something approaching lethal, almost death-wish driving. The nutters are even nuttier these days...undoubtedly due to cheap, high-powered cars that didn’t proliferate years ago;...imho, of course.

I'm not sure I agree.

The proportion of absolute flat-out balls-to-the-wall wellymerchants hasn't increased. I think, if anything it's decreased. IME, it's fairly rare to come across somebody absolutely giving it berries, thraping it as hard as it'll go.

What HAS increased, massively, is the proportion of those blithering along with their brains in neutral. They're EVERYWHERE, encouraged by the "I'm not speeding and I'm not on the phone, ergo I must be safe" mindset driven by monomaniacal road safety messages... and heavily enabled by pervasive active safety tech. Cars tell them when they drift across lines. They tell them when they're getting too close to the car in front. They tell them what the speed limit is. They tell them where they're going. The driver does not need to actually think. So they don't.

I’m wasn’t referring specifically to “absolute flat-out balls-to-the-wall wellymerchants”  (nice turn of phrase btw) but more the proliferation of drivers who believe that their driving abilities are somehow intrinsically linked to their own cars enhanced performance.

A modern high powered car (I’ve got one myself!) can instil a misplaced and elevated sense of skill and judgement in some drivers;...which in turn often leads to poor/dangerous decision making.

That particular problem wasn’t so apparent yesteryear.

I certainly agree about the gizmos slowing taking over from the drivers own thought process;...however, the  enhanced technology is intended to make our roads/motorways safer places to be. How it all pans out remains to be seen though.

OP...apologies for de-railing your thread somewhat. Hope the last few pages haven’t put you off motorways forever. They remain the safest of all our roads. 

 

 

AdrianC

Biggus_Dickus said:

I’m wasn’t referring specifically to “absolute flat-out balls-to-the-wall wellymerchants”  (nice turn of phrase btw) but more the proliferation of drivers who believe that their driving abilities are somehow intrinsically linked to their own cars enhanced performance.

A modern high powered car (I’ve got one myself!) can instil a misplaced and elevated sense of skill and judgement in some drivers;...which in turn often leads to poor/dangerous decision making.

That particular problem wasn’t so apparent yesteryear.

I certainly agree about the gizmos slowing taking over from the drivers own thought process;...however, the  enhanced technology is intended to make our roads/motorways safer places to be. How it all pans out remains to be seen though.

TBH, I think what we're seeing is part of the same thing - modern cars being so capable and so insulating, that it's easy to drift away and not realise the speed that's being done.

OP...apologies for de-railing your thread somewhat. Hope the last few pages haven’t put you off motorways forever. They remain the safest of all our roads. 

Seconded, and agreed.