Buying House: Open plan conservatory without building regulations

weezix

Hello,

My partner and I are in the process of buying our first home, which comes with an open plan conservatory into the living room that was built in 2009. A homebuyers survey has flagged that one wall of the conservatory is only single skin thickness and the floor has no airbricks in place, but the area externally appears in reasonable order. Additionally there is no FENSA certification for any of the glazing.

The sellers have claimed that no building regulations were required at the time, which I know is not the case since 2010 but have been unable to find an answer one way or another about the regulations pre-2010. Would anyone be able to confirm?

They have offered indemnity insurance as a means around this, however I am not currently convinced by this approach. If the conservatory does fall short of the building regulations at the time, then I believe we would be justified in asking for a reduction in price or walking away.

Thanks in advance for any help!

Jeepers_Creepers

You can ask for a reduction, but they don't have to give it; it all depends on how desirable the house is and who else is after it.

The conservatory would seem to breach Building Regs simply by being open-plan to the rest of the house, let alone anything else. Are we actually talking about a typical connie; full-height PVC doors and windows or ditto on a dwarf wall, along with a polycarbonate roof? If so, that's going to suck heat out of your house come winter.

I wouldn't personally worry myself about BRegs - ie the LA doing anything about it after this time - but I would make a judgement on what would be required on that connie to make it properly usable, and that is likely to involve wall insulation on the single-skin parts along with an insulated roof at the very least.

But the seller doesn't have to do anything - you buy it or you don't. You try for a discount, but that's up to them and how keen they are to sell.  

sheramber

 Was it built under 'permitted development.'

Vasquez65

Which room is it attached to?   
As far as I’m aware,  open plan meant planning permission even pre 2010. 

I wouldn’t want an open plan arrangement with my 2015 conservatory as it’s at the end of my open plan lounge/diner and even though it’s got energy efficient glass and a full glass roof,  my winter heating bills would be huge.  I also close the doors overnight in Summer or it would be like an oven downstairs come morning.
Is the single skin wall a big one? I know some have a full height wall down one side for privacy. 
We have a properly insulated double skin dwarf wall and 6 inches of insulation under the concrete floor and it’s still cold in winter when not heated. 

How do the current owners use the space now?   

weezix

It is a uPVC frame with a double glazed glass roof. The single skin wall is a smallish one on the left side roughly 2.5m long, maybe half a meter high (estimating from pictures). There is also a radiator along the wall next to the single skin one. We are not  concerned with the LA doing anything about it, but the extra cost involved in either getting it up to standard or dealing with heat loss / floor rot / resaleability.

There was no permitted development or building regulations, sellers claiming it didn't need any. They have it open plan from the living room, using it as a dining room.

happysellerbuyer

It would be freezing though.

Jeepers_Creepers

weezix said:

It is a uPVC frame with a double glazed glass roof. The single skin wall is a smallish one on the left side roughly 2.5m long, maybe half a meter high (estimating from pictures). There is also a radiator along the wall next to the single skin one. We are not  concerned with the LA doing anything about it, but the extra cost involved in either getting it up to standard or dealing with heat loss / floor rot / resaleability.

There was no permitted development or building regulations, sellers claiming it didn't need any. They have it open plan from the living room, using it as a dining room.

Ok, it's a bit better than a standard conservatory; it has a glass double-glazed roof, so is also likely to be sealed better against the walls than a 'PVC' connie. Is the roof all glass, or does it have glass sections - 'roof lights'? 

And what is the floor made from - is it solid or suspended? The former doesn't need venting 'cos it's, er, solid. If it's suspended timber, then - yes - it'll need venting to keep it dry under there and prevent the chance of rot. Adding vent bricks is peasy.

To insulate that wall is also easy - line the inside with insulated plasterboard 'thermal laminate board'. 

When you viewed, what did it look and feel like - was it like a quality, in-keeping extension to the room? Or does it appear to be a cheap plasticky 'connie'? Does it 'feel' like a proper room - like a 'garden room' - or a plastic bubble?

And - worst case - what would it take to fit bifolds in the opening to shut it off if needed? How wide is the opening? Bifolds - even nice aluminium ones - are cheap; you can get a 4-panel, around 4m bifold for around £2.5-3k. 

weezix

Not sure what you mean by all glass or glass sections, so I've attached a picture.

The floor is suspended timber, so will need vent bricks. It seemed a decent quality and definitely added to the living room, it was one of the things that drew us to the place initially. Not sure the bifolds would be a good compromise, as the opening to the conservatory is the main source of light.

Thank you for the advice on adding the vent bricks and thermal laminate board, it gives us something to go to the seller with.

Falafels

FENSA doesn’t apply to porches or conservatories, so don’t worry about that!

poppy10_2

weezix said:

There is also a radiator along the wall next to the single skin one.

See there's another problem. The conservatory shouldn't have a radiator that is heated along with the central heating in the rest of the house. Building regs are clear:

A conservatory must be thermally separated from the building it’s attached to (i.e. separated by external quality walls, windows and doors) and it must have a heating system that can be controlled independently from the rest of the house. Conservatories are not considered permanently habitable rooms and are on par with a lean-to or a greenhouse, so if it’s permanently heated along with the rest of your home’s central heating system, it’s essentially an extension and subject to the same building regulations.

When considering building regulations, the most important thing to bear in mind is that a conservatory is only exempt from regular heat loss regulations if its heating system is isolated from the rest of the house and can be controlled separately.

Davesnave

At the right price, I'd buy the house and stick bifolds or other doors across if I was happy with the conservatory as an additional space and not a full-time room, which it isn't. We don't find the doors on ours cut the amount of light that much, but they are about 9' wide. We also have a radiator...used once in a blue moon.

As for building regs, our BCO has walked past the conservatory numerous times and never given it a second glance. He doesn't know or care that everything, apart from the roof, is built to housing standard, because in his eyes it's a 'temporary structure.' It's also about 5m2 oversize to be exempt from planning, but he doesn't do planning!

The worst things about conservatories are usually the bits people don't see or think about, like the depth of foundations, the underfloor insulation and ventilation etc. Generally, the firms who fit conservatories are interested in achieving a competitive price, not doing things well. That's why ours was merely screwed to the fascia boards until I showed the fitters the manufacturer's installation instructions and said, 'I want it done like this, please.' It took them 4x longer to secure it than the first attempt.