PayPal payment to UPS

wizzywig27

On the 17th August I paid £12.59 to UPS via PayPal to send an unwanted item back to the retailer. I received no information/receipt from UPS but did receive the label to print. PayPal sent me a receipt for the £12.59.

Item was sent and delivered ok.

On the 21st August PayPal took £14.39 from my account (this has since left my bank account). I raised a dispute for the wrong amount and PayPal asked for evidence. I submitted to them the receipt that they sent me (as I didn’t get one from UPS). They then deny my claim as I didn’t provide enough evidence. I appeal this then call them. They advised that (apparently) UPS can take whatever they want once the payment in processed.

Today the appeal was denied as I didn’t provide sufficient information/documentation to support the claim.

I am lost. Could this be regarded as fraud?

Can anyone help me with my next steps? I have emailed UPS after calling them and I was instructed to do this but I’ve not heard anything back.

I know it’s only £1.80 but it’s not the point, that’s not what I agreed to pay and PayPal have been useless (as have UPS).

visidigi

What did you send? Was it a box? It might be the volumetric size exceeded the information given to UPS and as such the cost should have been higher and as part of the purchase you authorized them to take more if the information provided didn't reflect the size of the package on the service you entered.

Sandtree

You need to find out from UPS what has happened... it sounds like something was wrong with your order details (box was bigger/heavier than you declared) so shipping was recalculated based on the accurate values once it was received at the depot. 

wizzywig27

I entered the box size on their website and it suggested the box size. I have emailed them but had no response. 
Even if this was the case, (which it shouldn't be) surely an email advising would be appropriate.
And don't even get me started on PayPal!!

Sandtree

wizzywig27 said:

I entered the box size on their website and it suggested the box size. I have emailed them but had no response. 
Even if this was the case, (which it shouldn't be) surely an email advising would be appropriate.
And don't even get me started on PayPal!!

You would expect them to send a corrected invoice but this would be after the matter... like international importation charges etc couriers don't want tens of thousands of parcels sitting around awaiting for people to decide if to pay or have the item returned etc and so typically get on with the job of delivering and deal with the extra monies independently.  Normally the T&Cs highlight their right to adjust the price and bill if the package deviates from how you describe it

wizzywig27

Sandtree said:

wizzywig27 said:

I entered the box size on their website and it suggested the box size. I have emailed them but had no response. 
Even if this was the case, (which it shouldn't be) surely an email advising would be appropriate.
And don't even get me started on PayPal!!

You would expect them to send a corrected invoice but this would be after the matter... like international importation charges etc couriers don't want tens of thousands of parcels sitting around awaiting for people to decide if to pay or have the item returned etc and so typically get on with the job of delivering and deal with the extra monies independently.  Normally the T&Cs highlight their right to adjust the price and bill if the package deviates from how you describe it

Yeah, but I entered the size of the box on their website and it suggested a specific size. I know I entered the details correctly as I did it there and then. If I claw the money back (direct debit indemnity) then I will end up owing PayPal, but ultimately if a bill lands on my door and I don't know why its the amount it is, I don't just pay it. Its a catch 22 and they have me over a barrel with neither company willing to help

Sandtree

wizzywig27 said:

Sandtree said:

wizzywig27 said:

I entered the box size on their website and it suggested the box size. I have emailed them but had no response. 
Even if this was the case, (which it shouldn't be) surely an email advising would be appropriate.
And don't even get me started on PayPal!!

You would expect them to send a corrected invoice but this would be after the matter... like international importation charges etc couriers don't want tens of thousands of parcels sitting around awaiting for people to decide if to pay or have the item returned etc and so typically get on with the job of delivering and deal with the extra monies independently.  Normally the T&Cs highlight their right to adjust the price and bill if the package deviates from how you describe it

Yeah, but I entered the size of the box on their website and it suggested a specific size. I know I entered the details correctly as I did it there and then. If I claw the money back (direct debit indemnity) then I will end up owing PayPal, but ultimately if a bill lands on my door and I don't know why its the amount it is, I don't just pay it. Its a catch 22 and they have me over a barrel with neither company willing to help

You did it directly on UPS website?
What option did you select for packing material? 
If you selected "my packaging" then the dimensions aren't changed, if you select one of the UPS options then you only declare the weight as their packaging only comes in one size... if you selected their packaging did you actually use the packaging type selected?

PayPal I have normally found to be very helpful but it sounds like you went into their disputes process too early. Because you have used a middleman for payment it does mean your bank effectively cannot help you.

wizzywig27

I chose my own packaging, I had to as they sent me the label to attach to it...?
PayPal are asking for a receipt, but one was not provided - that's not my fault yet I am penalised, I provided them with the receipt THEY SENT ME!
Out of interest how do you feel I could have dealt with this differently? 
My bank can help me via way of direct debit indemnity claim - I can provide evidence that states the payment was for £12.59 therefore its an error in the direct debit amount, although I appreciate this just means I will end up owing PayScam.

visidigi

wizzywig27 said:

I chose my own packaging, I had to as they sent me the label to attach to it...?
PayPal are asking for a receipt, but one was not provided - that's not my fault yet I am penalised, I provided them with the receipt THEY SENT ME!
Out of interest how do you feel I could have dealt with this differently? 
My bank can help me via way of direct debit indemnity claim - I can provide evidence that states the payment was for £12.59 therefore its an error in the direct debit amount, although I appreciate this just means I will end up owing PayScam.

Firstly. Stop getting irritated when being asked info, won't help us or you.
You provided the dimensions and applied it to the packaging. Its highly likely UPS have used the laser scanners and determined either the size or the weight was under declared. Which has adjusted the cost accordingly. I would be asking UPS to provide a receipt for the charge and until they do hold fire (its only been 5 days since the charge). UPS are who you contracted a service from which you paid for PayPal facilitated the payment, not the service.

DD indemnity may not apply, the service you bought provided an authorisation for further charges if the quoted service elements were mis-quoted.

Go to UPS, ask them for proof/reason for the uplift in charge.

Sandtree

Then it is odd that you say the values changed as when I go through their site what shows is exactly the numbers I put in, they don't adjust them. Did the adjustments all result in the numbers going up?

I personally would have clarified with the merchant why the amount charged had changed first, if possible, as then you have a clearer idea of a) if what they did is reasonable or not and b) if you are arguing about the basics of they charged the wrong amount or just the question of their right to change the amount without your consent... just enables you to construct a more targeted complaint.

As you say, if your bank does a DD indemnity claim then the value is taken from your PayPal account... if you hold a balance with them it just basically means you've made a withdraw and if you have a zero balance your account goes into arrears and everything gets locked up until you clear it. PayPal adds complication to consumer rights etc but its a necessary evil in some circumstances as it can be the only/most efficient way to pay certain people/companies.

bris

It's £1.80, is losing your paypal account worth £1.80 to you? Some battles are just not worth fighting.