Admin fee on refund - Carlton Leisure

samanthaBmcg

We booked our flights in October 2019 through Carlton Leisure, which we had been taken to after searching on SkyScanner. In early June I contacted Carlton Leisure to say that it now seemed likely that our trip would be cancelled, and would we be able to reschedule our flights. They replied to say that we could not reschedule but would be entitled to a refund if our trip was disrupted. I consulted their T&Cs, Section 12 of which states that:

Airlines may alter their timetables and cancel flights at short notice. Such alterations are beyond the control of Carlton Leisure. The traveller is personally responsible for checking the times of the departing and return flights directly via the airlines. Should your flight be cancelled, your rights and remedies will be governed by the airline's conditions of carriage. As a result you may be entitled to:

12.1 Carriage on another flight with the same airline without additional cost, and/or

12.2 Receiving a full refund with the exception of Administration Charges.

If a schedule change occurs to your itinerary prior to our receipt from you of the full price, or prior to the issue of your tickets (on either the outbound or return flight) we will do our best to notify you on behalf of the carrier. Under no circumstances will the Company pay compensation for any alterations, which are as a direct result of circumstances outlined in condition "Force Majeure".

In late July we learned that British Airways had cancelled our flights, so I got back in touch with Carlton Leisure to confirm that they would be actioning a refund. They responded asking me to give authority for a £75 administration charge to be deducted, without which they would be unable to process the refund. I refused this; while their T&Cs do state that a full refund would be given "with the exception of Administration Charges", they are not specific about the amount. My understanding is that, under EU and UK law, companies must provide a refund in the event that no service is provided to the customer, and that this administration fee is unlawful.

Carlton Leisure continue to refuse to provide a refund unless I agree to them taking this £75 administration fee. No alternative (suitable or otherwise) has been offered.

I've now contacted my credit card company and travel insurer in the hope they'll be able to sort it, but is there anything else I can do? 

 

bagand96

The airline must give a full refund. However you've booked with an agent, which puts a middle man between you and the airline. Agents are allowed to charge administration fees for work done, it's part of their business model (they actually get very little commision from airlines.)

The agent will have to do some work in order to process your refund. Whether £75 is fair and reasonable for that is open to debate. Is it per person or in total?

mattyprice4004

They sold you a ticket, not a flight - so are entitled to charge an administration fee on a refund.
Some are choosing not to do this in the interest of good publicity, but a lot are still charging fees. 

Your credit card company may be unwilling to help as Carlton supplied what you ordered (a ticket) and it was the airline that cancelled. 

samanthaBmcg

The agent will have to do some work in order to process your refund. Whether £75 is fair and reasonable for that is open to debate. Is it per person or in total?

They claim it would usually be £75 per person and they've reduced it to £75 in total. I absolutely appreciate the need for them to cover their costs, but they have refused to provide any justification of this cost and have continuously refused to refund me unless I pay it. I feel like they are effectively holding my money hostage... 

samanthaBmcg

mattyprice4004 said:

They sold you a ticket, not a flight - so are entitled to charge an administration fee on a refund.
Some are choosing not to do this in the interest of good publicity, but a lot are still charging fees. 

Your credit card company may be unwilling to help as Carlton supplied what you ordered (a ticket) and it was the airline that cancelled. 

Which section of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 covers this?
My understanding is that, as a third party, they are responsible for ensuring that the goods/services I have paid for are delivered to me, or are responsible for providing a suitable alternative, or a full refund in the event that no suitable alternative is available. 

bagand96

 

13.2 Refunds

13.2.1 There is no automatic right to a refund and, when you return an air ticket to us, we will arrange for it to be presented to the respective airline or consolidator to assess eligibility for a possible refund in accordance with the relevant airline's or consolidator's terms and conditions.

13.2.2 Air tickets returned to us for a refund are subject to an administration charge of £75 per ticket, irrespective of the number of tickets returned. You will be required to pay a per ticket cancellation charge, imposed by the airline or the consolidator pursuant to their terms and conditions.

13.2.3 An administration fee of £75 per ticket will be levied on any non-refundable ticket where a tax refund application is made by us at your request and on your behalf. If the recoverable tax components for your ticket are less than the administration charge, the ticket will be deemed to be fully non-refundable. Refunds will not be paid to you until they have been received by us from the relevant airline or consolidator. In the case of airline ticket refunds, this is normally 10-12 weeks from the point the tickets are submitted for consideration to the airline.

This is from their T&C's. Only thing I would say is that it's not exactly clear whether that applies to when the customer cancels or when the airline cancels.

I do think agents are entitled to charge admin fees as per their T&C's. It could have been avoided by booking direct with the airline (or even a reputable agent) 

[Deleted User]

The agents are entitled to charge an admin fee. If you think it is unreasonable you can challenge it but I think the only decider would be taking it to a court.  If it is stalemate, you could spend many months only to be told it is acceptable.  If you feel up to it, let us know the outcome.  

I seem to remember somebody else refused to sign similar and a chargeback was reversed for that reason (sorry am hopeless at remembering where have seen these things).    Bottom line was the bank agreed they were entitled to an admin fee.  Obviously they don’t get involved with what that admin fee should be.  

Butts

Tedber said:

The agents are entitled to charge an admin fee. If you think it is unreasonable you can challenge it but I think the only decider would be taking it to a court.  If it is stalemate, you could spend many months only to be told it is acceptable.  If you feel up to it, let us know the outcome.  

I seem to remember somebody else refused to sign similar and a chargeback was reversed for that reason (sorry am hopeless at remembering where have seen these things).    Bottom line was the bank agreed they were entitled to an admin fee.  Obviously they don’t get involved with what that admin fee should be.  

What about ABTA ?

Upsidedownandaround

Butts said:

Tedber said:

The agents are entitled to charge an admin fee. If you think it is unreasonable you can challenge it but I think the only decider would be taking it to a court.  If it is stalemate, you could spend many months only to be told it is acceptable.  If you feel up to it, let us know the outcome.  

I seem to remember somebody else refused to sign similar and a chargeback was reversed for that reason (sorry am hopeless at remembering where have seen these things).    Bottom line was the bank agreed they were entitled to an admin fee.  Obviously they don’t get involved with what that admin fee should be.  

What about ABTA ?

Are Carlton Leisure members of ABTA? If they are they hide it well. 

Butts

Upsidedownandaround said:

Butts said:

Tedber said:

The agents are entitled to charge an admin fee. If you think it is unreasonable you can challenge it but I think the only decider would be taking it to a court.  If it is stalemate, you could spend many months only to be told it is acceptable.  If you feel up to it, let us know the outcome.  

I seem to remember somebody else refused to sign similar and a chargeback was reversed for that reason (sorry am hopeless at remembering where have seen these things).    Bottom line was the bank agreed they were entitled to an admin fee.  Obviously they don’t get involved with what that admin fee should be.  

What about ABTA ?

Are Carlton Leisure members of ABTA? If they are they hide it well. 

I don't know, just suggesting it as another possible point of call.

bagand96

Upsidedownandaround said:

Are Carlton Leisure members of ABTA? If they are they hide it well. 

As you say, no trace of it on their website, and agents usually like to stick the badge somewhere if they’d payed the membership fee. An ABTA member search yielded no results either.