EICR Report - confused!

dur77

Hi, wondering whether anyone can shed light on this, not getting anywhere with the electrician who did the recent EICR, is not responding to any of my queries.
So, we bought a period flat 6 years ago - got an EICR before purchase - highlighted that it needed a fuseboard upgrade and 'water/gas bonding' - paid the company to do the works, and they issued a certificate on completion of the works. We lived in the property for several years, no issues, and then had a kitchen/bathroom refurb done -  electrics-wise involved fitting lights, and positioning sockets, but nothing significant else that we were told about. Again, no issues that we noticed anyway.

Fast forward to now, and we are going to be letting the flat out, and new legislation means another EICR is due. So we get one done, and the guy has listed a whole list of C2 issues, a total of 11!! (potentially dangerous, urgent remedial action required) - I don't understand some of the terms, and he is not really explaining the issues either. But more importantly, some of them seem to relate to the initial electrical work done in 2014. For example, these have been listed as C2 issues:
- main earth to fuseboard undersized (would this not have been an issue when they fitted the new fuseboard in 2014?)
- no gas and water bond (again, the original work in 2014 was meant to sort this out - can this re-occur as a problem from wear and tear, or basically wasn't done properly?)
- gas and water installation pipes  (what does this mean, and is it related to gas and water bonding - if yes, why listed separately?)
- kitchen lights not earthed (is this an issue from the kitchen refurb - is it an easy issue to rectify?)
- bathroom downlights wired in 2 core flex and not earthed (again, is this an issue from kitchen refurb?)

Kitchen refurb guy is saying they didn't change or do anything with electrics, just fitted stuff based on what was already there - if that is the case, why didn't the kitchen/bathroom earthing issues arise in the initial EICR in 2014?

I find the whole thing confusing and really difficult to get head round the jargon, particularly when no-one is willing to explain it in simple terms -  can anybody clarify this - was there a problem with the way the initial EICR was done, or is this EICR been over to the top? Are these inspections standardised in anyway or potentially quite subjective - i.e. if I was to get another EICR done, should it also list exactly these problems as well?
Thanks!

bris

Gas and water bonding should go from the main board to the pipes at the gas meter and main water supply where it enters the building. Problem is they wont lift floorboards so if it's under the floor they cant see it. The current standards are 10mm but 6mm was used before that which is probably what you have. I have 6mm in properties and its a C3 because of the age of the installation.

The report should take into consideration the age of the installation, so if it was to the standards at the time then it should be a C3, It's not unusual for them to want the work to rectify. You could get back in touch with the first electrician to get a second opinion and ask why he didnt think most of it was an issue as well as the bonding problem which was meant to be done.

fenwick458

so did the 1st electrician install the bonding to gas & water in 2014, or not? does it say on their certificate or invoice?
kitchen and bathroom lights, if they are metal then the C2 is justified. if they are double insulated, or plastic , then I think they should be C3.
have you got an actual report, with test results? can you post it?

dur77

Just dug out the pre-and post electrical works in 2014.
Pre- work EICR in 2014: in section K, it mentions no protective conductors to incoming water and gas service, rated as C1,
circuit to bathroom lights and fan, RCBO rated high, C1; not all circuita are RCD protected 
Quote to install new 17th edition consumer unit, with twin RCD protection and protective bonding conductors to incoming water and gas - ~£500 paid.
Post-work EIC 2014: Main productive Conductors:
Earthing conductor: material: copper, earthing conductor CSA: 16mm2,
Main protective bonding conductors: material: copper, CSA:10mm2 
 - to incoming water service: Yes
 - to incoming gas service: Yes

EICR 2020: extracts of test results attached - seems inconsistent to me, with a lay person's vision! - it is now saying earthing conductor, CSA: 6mm2 and main protective bonding conductors CSA: 'LIM' - if limitation exists - water installation pipes, gas installation pipes -C2- i.e. no water and gas bonding!??
Really can't make head or tail of this...

Ectophile

The gas and water bonding will never "wear out".  They should be fairly obvious - look for a metal clamp around the incoming gas or water pipe, and a bit of green and yellow stripy wire heading off to the main earth terminal.

But it's possible that someone has boxed them in, perhaps behind a new kitchen unit.  If the latest electrician can't find them, they will assume they are not there.

I suspect the other things are poor workmanship that nobody has noticed before.  When doing an EICR, an electrician is unlikely to pull everything to bits looking for hidden faults.

dur77

Thanks Ectophile - that's helpful to know that they don't 'wear out'. I will check whether these have been boxed in, as you suggest, after the kitchen works - I am assuming the issue here is that the electrician can see the incoming pipes but the metal clamps are not there. Do you know why these are itemised as separate codes - gas and water bonding as separate issues and then listing 'gas and water installation pipes' separately - are they the same thing?
I don't have an issue with finding the other things - but if a new fuseboard was put in as part of remedying the last EICR, why would there now be an issue of the 'main earth to the fuseboard being undersized' - maybe regulations have changed  dramatically within last 5 years or so? 

Homer_home

They could fitted 6mm by accident or on purpose as 6mm is cheaper than 10mm cable , after all how will the average Joe know the difference?

Personally if you are not happy with the initial eicr get another one done on the proviso that the spark who does it won't get the work to reticify , that will give you a fairer report but double check you have bonding first