Bank Transfer for False reasons

DoaM

Devil's Advocate ... the OP sent money to a company without reference to an order number. Yes, they gave the door models and builder's name, but it would be unusual for any order not to have an order reference, so the company can argue on the basis they are doing.

I'm not saying they're right - merely posing an alternative viewpoint so that the OP can prepare to defend it.

Keep_pedalling

IvanOpinion said:

You bought something and the company used that to pay someone else's bill ???
I would be showing no mercy to the door supplier, they are 100% to blame for not providing you with what they paid for and taking instruction from a third party over your money.

No, the OP bought nothing from the door company, the builder conned then into paying his dept to the company for a previous order. 

Hasbeen

DoaM said:

Devil's Advocate ... the OP sent money to a company without reference to an order number. Yes, they gave the door models and builder's name, but it would be unusual for any order not to have an order reference, so the company can argue on the basis they are doing.

I'm not saying they're right - merely posing an alternative viewpoint so that the OP can prepare to defend it.

The builder would have ordered the doors through his account. It appears he was owing money there.

Surprised, if the builder was "so much in debt"? the company allowed the doors to be ordered. If they ever where.

Perhaps the OP can clarify if the builders account reference number was included in the transfer? And not just the builders name and a reference number for doors.

The company, if the money was paid into the builders account would have taken this to pay off any debt, normally at month end.

I would suugest if the  builders account reference number was  included, then the company have not done anything wrong.

And it is the builder the OP should be pursuing. LBA, court etc?

The_Rainmaker

DoaM said:

Devil's Advocate ... the OP sent money to a company without reference to an order number. Yes, they gave the door models and builder's name, but it would be unusual for any order not to have an order reference, so the company can argue on the basis they are doing.

I'm not saying they're right - merely posing an alternative viewpoint so that the OP can prepare to defend it.

That still wouldn't stop me chasing the company hard.  If possible I would be on their yard for a wee chat.

When a builder can't even buy the raw materials for the job that should have rung an alarm bell.

rossbott

@Hasbeen it was just the builders name and door models as this is what we were told by the builder who we trusted.
We intend to take the builder through small claims, I suppose the question is: can the manufacturer hold the money knowing it was not intended to pay off his debts? would they not guilty of keeping money obtained by fraud?

I know when people accidentally get money in their account not intended for them they have to return it, would this be the same or is it different with a business?

wesleyad

If it went to court it would hinge on the balance of probabilities.. which is more likely:

A: You thought you were buying doors for your house
B: You thought you'd like to pay off someone else's debt

I'd say no court in the land is going to think B is the likely interpretation.

Aylesbury_Duck

rossbott said:

@Hasbeen it was just the builders name and door models as this is what we were told by the builder who we trusted.
We intend to take the builder through small claims, I suppose the question is: can the manufacturer hold the money knowing it was not intended to pay off his debts? would they not guilty of keeping money obtained by fraud?

I know when people accidentally get money in their account not intended for them they have to return it, would this be the same or is it different with a business?

Have you checked that they are actually door model numbers?  Were you tricked into including the builder's account number rather than door model numbers?

Hasbeen

rossbott said:

@Hasbeen it was just the builders name and door models as this is what we were told by the builder who we trusted.
We intend to take the builder through small claims, I suppose the question is: can the manufacturer hold the money knowing it was not intended to pay off his debts? would they not guilty of keeping money obtained by fraud?

I know when people accidentally get money in their account not intended for them they have to return it, would this be the same or is it different with a business?

Not so sure about having to return it. Good people usually asap. But it was not a mistake, money was directly paid into Suppliers account? With just a name and reference. But agree at this time they should refund you.

So now would be time for written letter marked complaint sent to MFG with your evidence of bank transfer with door numbers etc which was paid directly into MFG account and not into builders.

eddddy

Making a court claim against the builder may not be productive - as it sounds like the builder might have no money.

It sounds like the builder committed fraud - so you should tell your bank to take the money back, as it was paid as a result of fraud.

(It's essentially a bank transfer scam - like when any other scammer lies to you in order to persuade you to make a bank transfer.

Essentially, it's as described here:  https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2019/05/more-protection-for-money-transfer-scam-victims-from-today/)

Sandtree

wesleyad said:

If it went to court it would hinge on the balance of probabilities.. which is more likely:

A: You thought you were buying doors for your house
B: You thought you'd like to pay off someone else's debt

I'd say no court in the land is going to think B is the likely interpretation.

 I am not sure I agree with the options... the problem is that there is no contract between the door manufacturer and the OP.

There is a contract between the builder and the OP and the fact they have requested the payment be made to a third party is broadly relatively irrelevant.  They could have paid the builder directly and he could have used that money to pay off the debt himself with the manufacturer and the OP would still be in the same position of money gone and no doors. 

I assume the OP is concerned of the financial position of the builder and hence doesnt want to issue court proceedings against the builder in case its good money after bad?