Top up card for father with Alzheimers

ciderboy2009

OP - I'm really sorry to hear about your father.  My father was diagnosed with Alzheimers about 10 years ago and passed away about two years ago so I know exactly what you are going through and what you've got ahead of you.

I suggest that you read up fully about what the Power of Attorney allows you to do.  By moving money into an account in your sole name you are potentially in breach of what you signed up to do.  This is why people are saying that you have potentially stolen the money.

What is your father currently like mentally?  When my father was diagnosed he was still functioning fairly normally 90% of the time. Would he be capable of understanding opening a new joint account with you?

At the end of the day, if he wants to spend the money and is capable of spending money then that is his choice.  The power of attorney should only really come into play when he is incapable of dealing with money matters or he specifically asks you to take control.  Apologies if this is what has happened but your opening post reads as though you have just decided that he shouldn't spend any money.

Bear in mind that there is nothing to stop him from applying for a normal credit card if he decides that you're not allowing himenough money.

gsdjj999

Chino said:

gsdjj999 said:

Ive TX'd £16k out of his account into mine

Perhaps best not to admit to this theft on a public forum.

As a police officer, I can tell you that the definition of theft is showing the intention to permanently deprive the person of it. I dont appreciate your humour when Im tring to get help on a financial question.

gsdjj999

ciderboy2009 said:

OP - I'm really sorry to hear about your father.  My father was diagnosed with Alzheimers about 10 years ago and passed away about two years ago so I know exactly what you are going through and what you've got ahead of you.

I suggest that you read up fully about what the Power of Attorney allows you to do.  By moving money into an account in your sole name you are potentially in breach of what you signed up to do.  This is why people are saying that you have potentially stolen the money.

What is your father currently like mentally?  When my father was diagnosed he was still functioning fairly normally 90% of the time. Would he be capable of understanding opening a new joint account with you?

At the end of the day, if he wants to spend the money and is capable of spending money then that is his choice.  The power of attorney should only really come into play when he is incapable of dealing with money matters or he specifically asks you to take control.  Apologies if this is what has happened but your opening post reads as though you have just decided that he shouldn't spend any money.

Bear in mind that there is nothing to stop him from applying for a normal credit card if he decides that you're not allowing himenough money.

He scored 4/26 on short term memory and he also has vascular dementia. He asked me to deal with his accounts and do what was best for him. Hes never understood money and that was apperent looking at his bank statements. He had cancelled his car insurance and had no house insurance, hed taken out loads of policies and has orderd 2 sets of double glazing that he has no recollection of. This is why Im helping him. I wasnt able to correct my first post to read that its a shared account that I moved the money to. Its not my money its his. He can hold conversations, but forgets it a few minutes later. ALl im trying to do is help him not make bad decisions. Im very upset that the whole point of reaching out on here was to get advicce of a card and everyone is assuming that Im stealing from him. That disgusts me.

jonesMUFCforever

Look; OP as a police officer you know there is always two sides to a story. Are you the only child?
If you are then presumably everything goes to you on his demise. (Did he make a will?)
If there are other siblings or family members wanting to put in a claim for a share of his estate how ill it LOOK if £16k was transferred to your account when you were acting as an attorney?
I don't for one minute think you are dishonest here but you have to be careful - for example if someone complains to the Court of Protection you could be asked to justify why you did what you did - they have the power to remove you as attorney.
You are in a difficult position due to living so far away from your father - is there a relative or friend you would trust to pop in and check his post etc. Taking his debit card and cheque book might be a start (although nothing could be done if he re ordered them) how about changing his bank statements to come to you (together with any cards or chequebooks that might be re-ordered!?
Don't know what can be done about inward telephone calls selling worthless insurance etc.
Lloyds has a standard saver account (forget the interest on it it will be next to nothing) but you could ask them to order a savings account ATM card. This allows a daily withdrawal at an ATM of £200 - you could ask the bank to reduce the daily limit if needed. The card won't work if he tries to shop online or by phone or tries to pay at a shop (cash only) - would this perhaps be a way forward?

bigadaj

gsdjj999 said:

Chino said:

gsdjj999 said:

Ive TX'd £16k out of his account into mine

Perhaps best not to admit to this theft on a public forum.

As a police officer, I can tell you that the definition of theft is showing the intention to permanently deprive the person of it. I dont appreciate your humour when Im tring to get help on a financial question.

You really should have a better understanding of the law if you are a copper, at least be a bit objective, of course this can look like theft from some perspectives. You will have to make some hard decisions in the near future, you can't stop him accessing his accounts and some close form of care will be necessary. To be honest it sounds as though he needs supervision already, my father has dementia and went into a home last year so I have some understanding. 

gm12

Is the Power of Attorney activated/registered or just set up for later use? Just checking as people sometimes aren’t aware this needs to be done. 

Is it worded giving you permission to act immediately, or when your Dad lacks capacity? If the latter, you could refer to a social worker for assessment of capacity. They can also advise you on what you can and cannot do to try to protect his financial interests.

Capacity is not a straightforward issue. And within the mental capacity guidance is the right to make decisions even if these seem unwise. If your Dad is still relatively well, and able to live alone without a care package, he may well be assessed as having capacity to make some decisions himself, regardless of whether they seem sensible or good use of his money to you. 

If you can set up online banking access, at least you can watch out for transactions and potentially cancel any new Payments set up. You can inform all his current insurers, utility companies etc that you have PofA (they may need to see certificate) and that they should send correspondence copies to you, not cancel at his request without checking etc. 

Registering to block cold calls as far as possible is some help, though not perfect. To reduce people persuading him to sign up for things etc.

The banking situation is difficult and there seems to be variation in what individual branches will do. They are not trying to be difficult, just ensuring Dad’s rights are also protected, even though to you it seems common sense to restrict his spending.

It must be very difficult for you living so far away and unable to oversee things on a day to day basis.  

Robin9

Could you get an account with a 2nd bank and transfer the majority of funds away from Lloyds; get the CC's limits reduced ..........

Shakin_Steve

jonesMUFCforever said:

Look; OP as a police officer you know there is always two sides to a story. Are you the only child?
If you are then presumably everything goes to you on his demise. (Did he make a will?)
If there are other siblings or family members wanting to put in a claim for a share of his estate how ill it LOOK if £16k was transferred to your account when you were acting as an attorney?
I don't for one minute think you are dishonest here but you have to be careful - for example if someone complains to the Court of Protection you could be asked to justify why you did what you did - they have the power to remove you as attorney.
You are in a difficult position due to living so far away from your father - is there a relative or friend you would trust to pop in and check his post etc. Taking his debit card and cheque book might be a start (although nothing could be done if he re ordered them) how about changing his bank statements to come to you (together with any cards or chequebooks that might be re-ordered!?
Don't know what can be done about inward telephone calls selling worthless insurance etc.
Lloyds has a standard saver account (forget the interest on it it will be next to nothing) but you could ask them to order a savings account ATM card. This allows a daily withdrawal at an ATM of £200 - you could ask the bank to reduce the daily limit if needed. The card won't work if he tries to shop online or by phone or tries to pay at a shop (cash only) - would this perhaps be a way forward?

The OP has already stated that he has a brother who is aware of the situation.

abc.xyz

gsdjj999 said:

My father has just been diagnosed with Alzheimers and vascular dementia and Lloyds bank aren't being very helpful. The HQ telephone POA dept said I could open up an account for dad, load money onto it and stop him having access to the other near £70k that's in his current account and on an ISA. They said to open an account I have to go into a bank. I go into said bank and end up wrangling with the Manager who informs me that they can open up another account but they cant stop dad if he goes into a bank having access to all his money [1]. They either stop all access (debit card and cheque book) or allow total access. I cannot believe Im the first person in the country to come up against this situation. In my panic to save the money from Dad who is looking at now buying a new mobility scooter for £6k using his card and has very bad macular degeneration (OH NO!!!) Ive TX'd £16k out of his account into mine, leaving just the ISA with £44k in it that he can access [2]. Ive seen teenager cards that  one can load, but can I get one for Dad [3].

I saw a list here https://www.money.co.uk/prepaid-cards/teenager-prepaid-cards.htm

He rarely uses cash and lives 5 hours away from me. He uses his debit card all the time. (contactless and chip and pin... he still remembers the number!)

He will not be happy when I confescate his debit card and cheque book, but he's handing the chequebook to all and sundry and they are filling it out and getting him to sign it. Hes a nightmare as he lives alone and currently is managing ok apart from finances and polies etc, which I am now doing.

Please help!

[1] This is not true. Move the money to a different bank - one that actually knows what they're doing.
[2] Do you have PoA or deputyship?
[3] Yes. You can open any account at any bank you want.