Solved - Bankrupt but bequeathed share of property

phillw

dave3dtg said:
The reason I haven't is because my brother insisted I shouldn't while he was disputing the legitimacy of the will due to it being negligently being drawn up. He was aiming to go for a deed of transferance due to my name being in it as a mistake.

A bold move indeed, I feel sorry for whoever wrote up the will and hope they kept good notes.
I don't know why you'd hold off telling the OR about it, if either your brother gets your share or the OR does then you may as well let them fight it out.

flipflopflo

dave3dtg said:

luvchocolate said:

Please take notice of Minkys reply...they know their stuff 

I have...to the extent that taking an overdose seems like the best option for me to save my Mum from so much pain and anguish, to save my children from any further burdens I might inflict on them and to save my brother's from the burden that is me.
Minkys reply describes something so alien to this world. It describes something that is pure, unadulterated evil. To perform those actions and potentially  kill an old lady who's lived in her house for 58 years for 65K is truelly despicable. To have a claim on just 8.33% and use it to cause so much pain is abhorant. They can't even let her live out her life with dignity. It's not even her debt. I've never quite understood what drives people to suicide...I do now.

The OR won’t drive her out, that is not what Minky said at all. You need to inform the OR of your inheritance and the OR will put his claim on it. Then when the time comes to sell the property at a later date, whenever that may be, then they will take their slice. At the moment you are catastrophising ring National Debtline  or Christians against poverty or Stepchange. Also maybe give the Samaritans a ring and chat to them about how you are feeling. They were lifesavers to me. 

normanna

100% agree with flipflopflo

ToxtethO'Grady

Sorry to hear you're feeling so stressed and low about this issue, please talk to someone about how you feel.

I feel you are concentrating on a scenario that may never happen OP.

The OR has several different ways to deal with property and requesting an Order for Sale is usually a last resort. The age of your mother is a big factor in how they will manage this and the legal implications with a trustee being involved. The trustee is usually the executor or whoever drew up the will.

They can leave the interest in the property and come back at a later date, they have 3 years to deal with it, usually 2 years 3 months to give them time to realise the interest in the property. They could put a charge on to value of your share and wait until the property is sold sometime in the future. They can do nothing as it will be too complicated and leave it as it is. They can sell the interest to someone else it doesn't have to be family it could be a friend.

The real issue here is that if you do not make the OR aware of this inheritance you are commiting an offence that could see your bankruptcy suspended and even a court appearance that could cause more costs and fees to be added on. This would mean that the OR would pursue the interest in the property to the best of their ability and that could cause issues not just for you but for everyone involved in this. They become like HMRC pursuing a VAT debt when they feel you are hiding an asset.

In my experience with the OR honesty is the best policy and I am amazed at how understanding they are sometimes. You do get a case examiner who's having a bad day sometimes but they're the exception not the norm. The only advice I can give is to inform them and see what they say. We could all go on about 'IF' they do this or that but we'll only know once you tell the OR and get their response.

Lanzarote1938

I would suggest that it is difficult to reconcile running up huge debts and then not wanting to pay them when you possibly will have the means to do so.

dave3dtg

Lanzarote1938 said:

I would suggest that it is difficult to reconcile running up huge debts and then not wanting to pay them when you possibly will have the means to do so.

The point is that a fragile old lady who's just lost her husband could possibly lose the home she's lived in for 58 years and owns 75% of to pay someone else's debt.  
Further I don't have the means. I have not received, been bequeathed or inherited anything I personally outright own or can profit from. I had nothing before my bankruptcy and I have nothing now.
What I do have now is 8.33% of a property I can do absolutely nothing with. So if the Official Receiver is handling my estate in bankruptcy strictly speaking there is absolutely nothing they can, or rather should be able to, do either. How can the system suddenly make available something which never existed before?
My parents house is in trust until my Mum passes. No one on the deeds or as a trustee or as a bequeathed to share holder can act alone. So why should the OR?
As for my debts, some are well over 6 years old and the oldest, a secured loan with London Scottish (in administration), is 16 years old. LS did write off the debt but began chasing those it wrote after going into administration. Well over half my debts are like this. I've never had proceedings against me for some.
As for "running up" my debts. I suspect you would run up a debt if your mortgage rate went up from an initial 6% to 15% in just six months at a time when people with high street lenders were paying 5%. I had two cars during a period of 10 years upto 11 years ago, both on finance and both with inherent manufacturing faults and which should not have been sold to anyone. Another debt of £7K also shouldn't be included as it was an investment in something and there was no contract. The OR's office advised me to put every debt on my bankruptcy petition regardless of threatened court action or age. So I have put many debts on a court order that could not be enforced by a court order! Someone somewhere is on a commission.

dave3dtg

Lanzarote1938 said:

I would suggest that it is difficult to reconcile running up huge debts and then not wanting to pay them when you possibly will have the means to do so.

Further still.
Bankruptcy is there to absolve people of debts that for whatever reason have become unsatisfiable. It's there to give that person a fresh start after a punishment period.
Now I'm not saying I shouldn't pay any enforceable debts off. If I won the lottery, or had the means, at any time in the future until I die then I would pay the legally enforceable ones off...it would feel very nice to be able to do so.
The bigger picture here is that if my bankruptcy is paid off by my 8.33% then it will simply disappear into the government coffers. It won't be available for me to spend in the economy. Perhaps I'd start a business with it. A business that might ultimately employ 100 people and import and export creating employment within other companies. None of that will happen now.

dave3dtg

ToxtethO'Grady said:

Sorry to hear you're feeling so stressed and low about this issue, please talk to someone about how you feel.

I feel you are concentrating on a scenario that may never happen OP.

The OR has several different ways to deal with property and requesting an Order for Sale is usually a last resort. The age of your mother is a big factor in how they will manage this and the legal implications with a trustee being involved. The trustee is usually the executor or whoever drew up the will.

They can leave the interest in the property and come back at a later date, they have 3 years to deal with it, usually 2 years 3 months to give them time to realise the interest in the property. They could put a charge on to value of your share and wait until the property is sold sometime in the future. They can do nothing as it will be too complicated and leave it as it is. They can sell the interest to someone else it doesn't have to be family it could be a friend.

The real issue here is that if you do not make the OR aware of this inheritance you are commiting an offence that could see your bankruptcy suspended and even a court appearance that could cause more costs and fees to be added on. This would mean that the OR would pursue the interest in the property to the best of their ability and that could cause issues not just for you but for everyone involved in this. They become like HMRC pursuing a VAT debt when they feel you are hiding an asset.

In my experience with the OR honesty is the best policy and I am amazed at how understanding they are sometimes. You do get a case examiner who's having a bad day sometimes but they're the exception not the norm. The only advice I can give is to inform them and see what they say. We could all go on about 'IF' they do this or that but we'll only know once you tell the OR and get their response.

Thank you for your kind words, and others as well.

I informed the OR on Monday. Yesterday I received a few forms to sign which surprised me as I would've thought they should've been signed when I declared bankruptcy in March. Must of triggered something I guess.
Yesterday evening I received a letter attached to an email claiming ownership of my Mum's house!

Minkym00

A few things to comment on from above posts.

The OR does have 3 years to deal with a property, but only if its the OP’s family home that they actually live in. If not this does not apply. However “dealing with” can simply mean applying for a charge that will be satisfied when the property is eventually sold when OP’s mum passes. In these circumstances this is extremely likely to happen. The OR will not do anything to put themselves at reputational risk (they’re not like HMRC!) 

The beneficial interest is worth around £54k right? Why would that “disappear into government coffers”?? There is an order in which any monies will be distributed according to the legislation, it cannot just be kept. The costs of managing the estate are paid first, then the OR’s fees, then the Insolvency Practitioner’s fees (if in place), then any secured creditors, then unsecured creditors. Anything left over goes to the bankrupt.

All bankrupts and creditors are treated equally under the law, no matter how debts have been incurred. Why should you have the money to start a business or otherwise? Your debts may be with financial institutions, i don’t know, but what if a bankrupt owed your mum money - should they be given the money to start again?

The OR’s letter is not claiming the house, surely? If it is go back and explain that it that is incorrect. They can only claim your beneficial interest.

ToxtethO'Grady

The OR does have 3 years to deal with a property, but only if its the OP’s family home that they actually live in. If not this does not apply. However “dealing with” can simply mean applying for a charge that will be satisfied when the property is eventually sold when OP’s mum passes. In these circumstances this is extremely likely to happen. The OR will not do anything to put themselves at reputational risk (they’re not like HMRC!)

My bad. I'm sorry for my incorrect advice. Thank you for correcting me.