Two storey extension- no building regs

AskAsk

Mickey666 said:

If the extension really was built with building control involved but it's just that the final completion certificate hasn't been issued then there should be an 'open file' at the local council building control department because, as I understand things, there is no time limit on the completion of building works.  So, I'd be calling the local council BC office (contact details probably on the council website) and asking them if they have any records of work on the property.

Alternatively, let the solicitor dig around as part of their searches.

you can sometimes see planning permission and building regulations on the council's website.  the OP will need to be careful if he or the selller approach the council to ask about the building regulation certificate as that will stop any possibility of the indemnity insurance.  it can be issued if no one grass to the council.

AliasOmega

If you have this problem, the next person to buy it from you will...

If you buy this property, you need to prepare for a "get well package" otherwise you will be in the same place, and take a financial knock by the next buyer...just like you would to the current seller.

snowcat75

AskAsk said:

DoaM said:

AskAsk said:

we had the same problem on our house when we bought it.  the sellers had a single storey extension done and they didn't have the building regulations sign off certificate.  we insisted that this was done before we complete the purchase as we didn't like the idea of an indeminity.  the sellers got the certificate, as apparently it was available but the council didn't put it on the website or gave it to the owners.  or maybe the owners forgotten about it.
you can buy the property without the certificate, but you would need to get it certified once you have bought it and that may cost a lot of money.

Why?

you can apparently get an indemnity policy but that doesn't protect you if the house fall over.  the building regulations are there for a purpose, to make sure that it is built safely and so unless this is signed off, you won't be able to know if it was built safely or correctly.  also the indemnity policy would only protect you if the council goes after you, not if the building fell over and damaged other people's property or injured/killed someone, even yourself or your family.  a bit of a OTT scenario, but it is not impossible.

This is somewhat of a misconception some building regs are to do with structure some are just bits of paperwork, Corners are cut with or without building regs and just how much checking do you believe goes on in the 30 minutes total time the average inspector looks an extension? , Iv know cowboy builders to chuck 400mm of dirt back into footings once inspected to save a few quid on concreate, keep the inspector busy so they only look at the one room where they've put the correct amount of knoggins in the floor, or put the correct thickness of insulation in what can be seen then then skimped on the rest. 

BUT most importantly why is the matter so important that one section meets current regs and the rest of the house doesnt or ever will? 
People live in houses (and pay a premium ) that are century's old, and were built with timber that was found on the shoreline....
The important part is the quality of what's been built , and time and time again buyers become fixated  with council beurocracy  over the really important issues. 

AdrianC

Mickey666 said:

I wonder what the OP would think of this old house for sale: https://www.carterjonas.co.uk/house/for-sale/lavenham/mel190146

This might be an en-suite too far for many.

Thrugelmir

I'd have reservations about the build quality/electrics etc if there was no final sign off. Normally it's how the builder finally gets paid. 

AskAsk

snowcat75 said:

AskAsk said:

DoaM said:

AskAsk said:

we had the same problem on our house when we bought it.  the sellers had a single storey extension done and they didn't have the building regulations sign off certificate.  we insisted that this was done before we complete the purchase as we didn't like the idea of an indeminity.  the sellers got the certificate, as apparently it was available but the council didn't put it on the website or gave it to the owners.  or maybe the owners forgotten about it.
you can buy the property without the certificate, but you would need to get it certified once you have bought it and that may cost a lot of money.

Why?

you can apparently get an indemnity policy but that doesn't protect you if the house fall over.  the building regulations are there for a purpose, to make sure that it is built safely and so unless this is signed off, you won't be able to know if it was built safely or correctly.  also the indemnity policy would only protect you if the council goes after you, not if the building fell over and damaged other people's property or injured/killed someone, even yourself or your family.  a bit of a OTT scenario, but it is not impossible.

This is somewhat of a misconception some building regs are to do with structure some are just bits of paperwork, Corners are cut with or without building regs and just how much checking do you believe goes on in the 30 minutes total time the average inspector looks an extension? , Iv know cowboy builders to chuck 400mm of dirt back into footings once inspected to save a few quid on concreate, keep the inspector busy so they only look at the one room where they've put the correct amount of knoggins in the floor, or put the correct thickness of insulation in what can be seen then then skimped on the rest. 

BUT most importantly why is the matter so important that one section meets current regs and the rest of the house doesnt or ever will? 
People live in houses (and pay a premium ) that are century's old, and were built with timber that was found on the shoreline....
The important part is the quality of what's been built , and time and time again buyers become fixated  with council beurocracy  over the really important issues. 

the building regulations that i have experienced are all to do with structure and safety, like the electrics safety certificate, the double glazed windows, the fire protection for the building, the drainage and soil.  they can't regulate old buildings but they can new building work, and as long as there is a record on file that such work had been done, there may always be come back from buying a property without the final inspection and sign off.

it depends on what work had been done, but in this case a two storey structure had been built, so a significant build had been done, the council is aware of the work, so i would be uncormfortable buying the property on indemnity alone, and i would want to get that certification or if not, get the indemnity and also get a full valuation report to make sure there is no structural issue with the extension.

lesalanos

I've never seen a building inspector test anything on the works done on my properties.  They show up now and again, have a look round, check it all looks OK then come back at the next stage.  As said above builders take short cuts.  The cert says that the processes have been followed but nothing about the quality of the work in my experience 

snowcat75

AskAsk said:

snowcat75 said:

AskAsk said:

DoaM said:

AskAsk said:

we had the same problem on our house when we bought it.  the sellers had a single storey extension done and they didn't have the building regulations sign off certificate.  we insisted that this was done before we complete the purchase as we didn't like the idea of an indeminity.  the sellers got the certificate, as apparently it was available but the council didn't put it on the website or gave it to the owners.  or maybe the owners forgotten about it.
you can buy the property without the certificate, but you would need to get it certified once you have bought it and that may cost a lot of money.

Why?

you can apparently get an indemnity policy but that doesn't protect you if the house fall over.  the building regulations are there for a purpose, to make sure that it is built safely and so unless this is signed off, you won't be able to know if it was built safely or correctly.  also the indemnity policy would only protect you if the council goes after you, not if the building fell over and damaged other people's property or injured/killed someone, even yourself or your family.  a bit of a OTT scenario, but it is not impossible.

This is somewhat of a misconception some building regs are to do with structure some are just bits of paperwork, Corners are cut with or without building regs and just how much checking do you believe goes on in the 30 minutes total time the average inspector looks an extension? , Iv know cowboy builders to chuck 400mm of dirt back into footings once inspected to save a few quid on concreate, keep the inspector busy so they only look at the one room where they've put the correct amount of knoggins in the floor, or put the correct thickness of insulation in what can be seen then then skimped on the rest. 

BUT most importantly why is the matter so important that one section meets current regs and the rest of the house doesnt or ever will? 
People live in houses (and pay a premium ) that are century's old, and were built with timber that was found on the shoreline....
The important part is the quality of what's been built , and time and time again buyers become fixated  with council beurocracy  over the really important issues. 

the building regulations that i have experienced are all to do with structure and safety, like the electrics safety certificate, the double glazed windows, the fire protection for the building, the drainage and soil.  they can't regulate old buildings but they can new building work, and as long as there is a record on file that such work had been done, there may always be come back from buying a property without the final inspection and sign off.

it depends on what work had been done, but in this case a two storey structure had been built, so a significant build had been done, the council is aware of the work, so i would be uncormfortable buying the property on indemnity alone, and i would want to get that certification or if not, get the indemnity and also get a full valuation report to make sure there is no structural issue with the extension.

EPC/SAPs ,water usage calks, disabled access (removed most of the time) have little to do with safety or structure but are often priototised by BC over inspection.

electrical compliance only came in 2005 and wasn't notifiable to BC until 2013, Fensa was 2002 and  isn't necessary when being built under BC, so in this instance most of doesnt exist.

BR are only enforceable within 12 months so the council isnt going to care, but more importantly Regs from the Mid 2000snds would not meet compliance today anyhow.

But if that's not enough perspective I converted this from 2016-18.....

BC inspected a total of 4 times, 
The drains were checked from 50' away,
The section of wall rebuilt was done so because it had no footing (BC never even knew)
The steels that were added and the new As I put in should have had a request for there EN1090 certs (my trade) BC hadnt even know what 1090 was.
The staircase I made were never checked to be within part K compliance.
The sparky despite issuing a compliance cert and testing , hadn't tightened a N tail on the main ring so I had an MCB fault.
escape windows upstairs were never measured in height, and actually I never had inspector on the scaffolding at all.....
The list is endless of things BC didn't do along with the pointless things they did,  and having something built to a bare minim standard  doesnt make a decent build, I always use new builds as an example tick all the boxes for compliance but will be the slums of the future once the warranty runs out. 
 

SMR710

5 inch gap between properties... it could have a gold plated, diamond trimmed building control certificate and I wouldnt touch it.

ripley81

The important part is the quality of what's been built , and time and time again buyers become fixated  with council beurocracy  over the really important issues. 

Yes I agree. The quality of what’s been built must be spot on. But paperwork is important to protect your investment, even if in reality it might not prove anything.