JSA, how difficult can it be!

poppy12345

unkle said:

Teahfc said:

unkle said:

calcotti said:

unkle said: ...starting to wish I hadn't bothered as it's taxable anyway  so i'll only see half of it, ..

It is not taxed as source so you will see all of it. Depending on your total income for the tax year so e tax may be due a tax the end of the year. You have to be a very high earner to pay 50% tax. 

Correct, it's paid gross, just had my first £74 , just another thing to add to my tax return next year. If I work before the end of the tax year i'll likely hit 45% rate as had already earned 4 month money and was paid up 6 months notice, holiday pay etc etc.

If it is just another thing you have to add to your tax return but will potentially add a few hundred pound to you for filing it then you are being rather ungrateful. There are 10’s of if not 100’s of thousands of people on benefits and low wages who would jump through hoops to have a few extra 100 pounds in their banks.
Pointless thread to moan about not receiving a call only to mean it was mere pocket change you were receiving.
🤷🏻‍♂️

Didn't mean to sound ungrateful,
Was a little surprised that JSA @ £74 a week for max 6 months is classed as taxable income though. Is UC taxable?

Really, you've surprised me. No, UC is not taxable, why would it be when it's a means tested benefit.

See link for the full list of taxable and tax free benefits.

https://www.gov.uk/income-tax/taxfree-and-taxable-state-benefits

calcotti

unkle said: .

Didn't mean to sound ungrateful, i've worked straight for 31 years without a single gap in employment which I am grateful for. I wasn't going to claim the JSA but lots of people said I should having paid into the system for all these years as I was entitled to it.
Was a little surprised that JSA @ £74 a week for max 6 months is classed as taxable income though. Is UC taxable? Just seems a ludicrous system TBH. There's much better and more efficient ways to provide a safety net.

New style JSA and new style ESA are contribution based benefits and are taxable (along with several other benefits). Universal Credit is a means tested benefit and is not taxable. https://www.gov.uk/income-tax/taxfree-and-taxable-state-benefits

unkle

poppy12345 said:

unkle said:

Teahfc said:

unkle said:

calcotti said:

unkle said: ...starting to wish I hadn't bothered as it's taxable anyway  so i'll only see half of it, ..

It is not taxed as source so you will see all of it. Depending on your total income for the tax year so e tax may be due a tax the end of the year. You have to be a very high earner to pay 50% tax. 

Correct, it's paid gross, just had my first £74 , just another thing to add to my tax return next year. If I work before the end of the tax year i'll likely hit 45% rate as had already earned 4 month money and was paid up 6 months notice, holiday pay etc etc.

If it is just another thing you have to add to your tax return but will potentially add a few hundred pound to you for filing it then you are being rather ungrateful. There are 10’s of if not 100’s of thousands of people on benefits and low wages who would jump through hoops to have a few extra 100 pounds in their banks.
Pointless thread to moan about not receiving a call only to mean it was mere pocket change you were receiving.
🤷🏻‍♂️

Didn't mean to sound ungrateful,
Was a little surprised that JSA @ £74 a week for max 6 months is classed as taxable income though. Is UC taxable?

Really, you've surprised me. No, UC is not taxable, why would it be when it's a means tested benefit.

See link for the full list of taxable and tax free benefits.

https://www.gov.uk/income-tax/taxfree-and-taxable-state-benefits

So if someone works and earns £18.5k, £6k of that is taxable, if someone receives £18.5k in UC it's not taxable. Doesn't seem right to me.
The whole benefit system is an industry in it's own and is a mess. The sooner they get rid of the vast majority of it and replace with a basic income the better, the savings on administration costs would be huge. Just pay every adult a basic wage and everything above that is taxable.

poppy12345

Yup, that's correct because as previously advised, UC is means tested and the same for Income Related ESA/JSA and Income support.

How can everyone just be "paid" a basic wage?? for means tested benefits how much you're entitled to totally depends on your circumstances and some are entitled to more than others. There's also the benefit cap that applies to some people, which means there's a maximum amount they can claim, regardless of their circumstances.

unkle

poppy12345 said:

Yup, that's correct because as previously advised, UC is not means tested and the same for Income Related ESA/JSA and Income support.

How can everyone just be "paid" a basic wage?? for means tested benefits how much you're entitled to totally depends on your circumstances and some are entitled to more than others. There's also the benefit cap that applies to some people, which means there's a maximum amount they can claim, regardless of their circumstances.

Upon turning 18 to death you receive, from the state, a basic wage, for now lets say 18,000 which is roughly a full time job at £10 an hour. The only benefits I can see that would be needed over and above that are for one's like disability. Otherwise you have to live on the £18k. We seem to expect a lot of pensioners to live on a lot less!

Over and above that any income you earn through work is taxed, no personal allowance etc and tax rate likely to start in the 30's but needs to actuaries to calculate what rates are required.
We need to get away from the current benefit system and the industry it has created. It's ludicrous and has so many flaws it's ridiculous. It's also allowed companies to underpay a decent wage because the state are picking up the difference. That all started with the working tax credits and the like. We never had that 30 years ago and in general companies paid a wage that people could live on. The state shouldn't be subsidising like it currently does.

calcotti

poppy12345 said:

Yup, that's correct because as previously advised, UC is not means tested and the same for Income Related ESA/JSA and Income support. 

Typo - you didn’t mean ‘not’.

poppy12345

calcotti said:

poppy12345 said:

Yup, that's correct because as previously advised, UC is not means tested and the same for Income Related ESA/JSA and Income support. 

Typo - you didn’t mean ‘not’.

Thanks, yes a typo, i've corrected it now

kaMelo

unkle said:

poppy12345 said:

Yup, that's correct because as previously advised, UC is not means tested and the same for Income Related ESA/JSA and Income support.

How can everyone just be "paid" a basic wage?? for means tested benefits how much you're entitled to totally depends on your circumstances and some are entitled to more than others. There's also the benefit cap that applies to some people, which means there's a maximum amount they can claim, regardless of their circumstances.

Upon turning 18 to death you receive, from the state, a basic wage, for now lets say 18,000 which is roughly a full time job at £10 an hour. The only benefits I can see that would be needed over and above that are for one's like disability. Otherwise you have to live on the £18k. We seem to expect a lot of pensioners to live on a lot less!

Over and above that any income you earn through work is taxed, no personal allowance etc and tax rate likely to start in the 30's but needs to actuaries to calculate what rates are required.
We need to get away from the current benefit system and the industry it has created. It's ludicrous and has so many flaws it's ridiculous. It's also allowed companies to underpay a decent wage because the state are picking up the difference. That all started with the working tax credits and the like. We never had that 30 years ago and in general companies paid a wage that people could live on. The state shouldn't be subsidising like it currently does.

Factually you are incorrect, Tax credits were not the beginning. something was put in place back when Thatcher was in power although I cannot remember exactly what it was called. It certainly wasn't generous though, made more generous with the Major Government and eventually evolved to tax credits under Blair.


 As for UBI, have you any idea of the numbers we are talking about to achieve that? It's collosal.
Rough figures,
Current welfare budget including Pensions is around £250 Billion
31 million adults in the UK  x £18000  = £560 Billion 

More than double the amount, your 45% tax rate just became 70% to pay for it.
A UBI does not take into account any personal circumstance either, you get your £18,000 and off you go, no help with housing, disabled needs or anything else, you got your £18,000 and that's it. 
Homeless rates would go through the roof.
If you then try to target help at those in need such as disabled or with housing needs then by definition it's not universal.

Those who tout UBI as a great idea seem to have no inkling of how much it would cost and how little help it would provide to those who actually need it.

The one part I do agree with is that companies should pay enough for people not to have to rely on a state top up to live.

unkle

kaMelo said:

unkle said:

poppy12345 said:

Yup, that's correct because as previously advised, UC is not means tested and the same for Income Related ESA/JSA and Income support.

How can everyone just be "paid" a basic wage?? for means tested benefits how much you're entitled to totally depends on your circumstances and some are entitled to more than others. There's also the benefit cap that applies to some people, which means there's a maximum amount they can claim, regardless of their circumstances.

Upon turning 18 to death you receive, from the state, a basic wage, for now lets say 18,000 which is roughly a full time job at £10 an hour. The only benefits I can see that would be needed over and above that are for one's like disability. Otherwise you have to live on the £18k. We seem to expect a lot of pensioners to live on a lot less!

Over and above that any income you earn through work is taxed, no personal allowance etc and tax rate likely to start in the 30's but needs to actuaries to calculate what rates are required.
We need to get away from the current benefit system and the industry it has created. It's ludicrous and has so many flaws it's ridiculous. It's also allowed companies to underpay a decent wage because the state are picking up the difference. That all started with the working tax credits and the like. We never had that 30 years ago and in general companies paid a wage that people could live on. The state shouldn't be subsidising like it currently does.

Factually you are incorrect, Tax credits were not the beginning. something was put in place back when Thatcher was in power although I cannot remember exactly what it was called. It certainly wasn't generous though, made more generous with the Major Government and eventually evolved to tax credits under Blair.


 As for UBI, have you any idea of the numbers we are talking about to achieve that? It's collosal.
Rough figures,
Current welfare budget including Pensions is around £250 Billion
31 million adults in the UK  x £18000  = £560 Billion 

More than double the amount, your 45% tax rate just became 70% to pay for it.
A UBI does not take into account any personal circumstance either, you get your £18,000 and off you go, no help with housing, disabled needs or anything else, you got your £18,000 and that's it. 
Homeless rates would go through the roof.
If you then try to target help at those in need such as disabled or with housing needs then by definition it's not universal.

Those who tout UBI as a great idea seem to have no inkling of how much it would cost and how little help it would provide to those who actually need it.

The one part I do agree with is that companies should pay enough for people not to have to rely on a state top up to live.

But how much would be saved in administration? And yes, of course tax would need to go up. But tax starts at Pound Zero not £12,500. Rates would be more like 30% and 60%, but that shouldn't be an issue.
You missed that I said certain benefits such as disability may still be needed.

As for 'you've got 18,000 and thats it' - thats above the minimum wage, how much does a single person currently earning minimum wage currently get by way of benefit?

poppy12345

unkle said:

kaMelo said:

unkle said:

poppy12345 said:

Yup, that's correct because as previously advised, UC is not means tested and the same for Income Related ESA/JSA and Income support.

How can everyone just be "paid" a basic wage?? for means tested benefits how much you're entitled to totally depends on your circumstances and some are entitled to more than others. There's also the benefit cap that applies to some people, which means there's a maximum amount they can claim, regardless of their circumstances.

Upon turning 18 to death you receive, from the state, a basic wage, for now lets say 18,000 which is roughly a full time job at £10 an hour. The only benefits I can see that would be needed over and above that are for one's like disability. Otherwise you have to live on the £18k. We seem to expect a lot of pensioners to live on a lot less!

Over and above that any income you earn through work is taxed, no personal allowance etc and tax rate likely to start in the 30's but needs to actuaries to calculate what rates are required.
We need to get away from the current benefit system and the industry it has created. It's ludicrous and has so many flaws it's ridiculous. It's also allowed companies to underpay a decent wage because the state are picking up the difference. That all started with the working tax credits and the like. We never had that 30 years ago and in general companies paid a wage that people could live on. The state shouldn't be subsidising like it currently does.

Factually you are incorrect, Tax credits were not the beginning. something was put in place back when Thatcher was in power although I cannot remember exactly what it was called. It certainly wasn't generous though, made more generous with the Major Government and eventually evolved to tax credits under Blair.


 As for UBI, have you any idea of the numbers we are talking about to achieve that? It's collosal.
Rough figures,
Current welfare budget including Pensions is around £250 Billion
31 million adults in the UK  x £18000  = £560 Billion 

More than double the amount, your 45% tax rate just became 70% to pay for it.
A UBI does not take into account any personal circumstance either, you get your £18,000 and off you go, no help with housing, disabled needs or anything else, you got your £18,000 and that's it. 
Homeless rates would go through the roof.
If you then try to target help at those in need such as disabled or with housing needs then by definition it's not universal.

Those who tout UBI as a great idea seem to have no inkling of how much it would cost and how little help it would provide to those who actually need it.

The one part I do agree with is that companies should pay enough for people not to have to rely on a state top up to live.

  how much does a single person currently earning minimum wage currently get by way of benefit?

They wouldn't be entitled to anything at all...