Mobile Cashback Petition

mobilejunkie

Rather than trying to spoil cashback deals for everyone you should have actually researched the company first. They were notorius (along with siome others) a long time before you took out your contract with them. It was your judgement and lack of research - why should that put a stop to those of us who do things right? Sour grapes.

NitroBN

Turning the purchase of regular household goods into a form of gaming or lottery is an absurd marketing method designed only for the insane. I allways thought this way and having given the cash back dealers a go quickly returned to this line of thought. Running a form of lottery also requires a gaming and lotteries licence and I highly doubt any of the retailers even the biggest carry one. So if its not a lottery and as a company in the business of marketing any goods where by you knowingly could not have ever met 100% of your commitements prior to going to market and that has resulted in consumer losses then that is nothiung short of fraud and deception, which is potentially a criminal offence..

Yes I have recently been bitten having had 2 succesful deals with a particular large company and a 3rd with them was declined with changed goal posts and affected by the recent postal strikes etc, it has turned what should have been a simple affair into nothing less than the biggest purchase nightmare I have ever had to endure. If I want to gamble I can go into a bookie, arcade or casino, now you also can try signing up to various mobile phone contracts and hope the cash backs will come through.. We are now a disabled couple with children facing baliffs knocking the door any day while we wait for the 3 month period where we can then complain directly to Otelo as this PLC has refused to acknowledge the letter of complaint in writing, refused to issue a letter of deadlock and refused to put the account into a state of suspension during the dispute period. They have continued billing me while not providing any service, tried blackmailing me into paying up with the usuall threats of blacklist databases etc and are now threating to extort the funds by their appointed heavies during a 'personal visit'. Word of warning, dont trust cash backs on any product or rather I should say do so at your peril, if companies can afford to discount the products in this way they can do so at the point of sale, if they cannot then the chances are they will not meet their promises once they have your money and signature.

The current mobile phone cahsback scandal has done nothing for the industry or the consumer but placed the mobile industry back into an era of disrepute unrivalled in the past like in the early days of the 80's with ambiguous contracts etc. It has disrupted many consumers lives, with lots more misery to come and in the end its the industry itself will pay the hard way as does any industry that is so desperate to cling on to markets it will commit crime to try to stay on top. Having been a mobile phone purchaser for around 20 years I have only had 2 deals go south, the first and last at the current time, and it is probably going to be my last for some time now due to the way the markets are and a total lack of confidence in the current mobile marketing trends. The first I simply sent in a few bits of paper to the courtroom as my representation and cellnet ran out of there faster than you could have said the words 'null contract', the last is simply the worst purchase I ever made, the phone was a previously returned pile of junk that barely functioned as it should on a deal that has now cost me several times more than what I could have paid for a sim free contract free brand new model of the phone, I also have no service as thats been cut 7 months premature as a result despite my having stumped up well in excess of the total contract liability allready, and I probably could not get another phone if I wanted as I would be subject to credit checks where by my name will show as tarnished by this provider and retailer. Fortunately for me I am in posssesion of a couple of other standard contracts on another network which are running fine and have done for several years, otherwise my wife and I would have no form of mobile communication at all. The way it is now the mobile networks and retailers are like the circular firing squad encircled around the consumers, all we need to do as consumers is a synchronised duck while they shoot.

NitroBN

mobilejunkie wrote: »

Rather than trying to spoil cashback deals for everyone you should have actually researched the company first. They were notorius (along with siome others) a long time before you took out your contract with them. It was your judgement and lack of research - why should that put a stop to those of us who do things right? Sour grapes.

I hate to disagree with some one being a new comer here especially when you are obviously in general a person who posts contructively but its not the consumer ruining the cashback deals, its unscrupulous operators and retailers making offers they cannot keep or will use any excuse in an attempt to get out of as many liabilities as possible. They are the ones who hold the contracts over the consumers and not the other way around and it is them alone who has wrecked the business model.

mobilejunkie

All consumers need is a brain and a little care. I've had or got over 30 contracts and only had one dealer go bust because I used mine and practiced what I preach. I never moaned at the dealer who went bust - I knew that one was risker when I did it. If these things are "insane" it says a lot for all those who go into them so lightly. It is not a lottery but a game of skill. Like any other game, those who enter without suitable training are less likely to win - that doesn't mean banning the game. Since we don't ban cigarettes (far more harmful financially and healthwise) - a clear warning on every cashback deal would be appropriate rather than mass hysteria.

alnsv1000s

If you want to complain, but actually get results contact you local MP and ask them to sign up to the Early Day Motion. The more MPs that sign up the quicker action will be taken, not to stop the practice but make it a legitimate offer rather than a game or gamble.
I have heard that some very high profile MPs are very likely to sign up to this Early Day Motion and we want cross party support, as this affects people all over the country.

mobilejunkie

It affects people like me too! Everyone is entitled to their point of view. No-one forces anyone into these deals. I go quite willingly and quite confident of getting my money - and (almost) invariably have, as have all those I look after. I haven;t had to sue, very rarely need a LBA and make sure I know the rules and the dealers. The only time I lost was with a dealer I knew was a risk in temrs of solvency - and only went with them when I'd already come ou so far ahead of the game that I was willing to (and did) accept that risk. I actually consistently warn people away from these deals - that doesn't mean they should be restricted so that they are effectively banned If not in name). Too much regulation and we never learn in all sorts of places!

NitroBN

mobilejunkie wrote: »

All consumers need is a brain and a little care. I've had or got over 30 contracts and only had one dealer go bust because I used mine and practiced what I preach. I never moaned at the dealer who went bust - I knew that one was risker when I did it. If these things are "insane" it says a lot for all those who go into them so lightly. It is not a lottery but a game of skill. Like any other game, those who enter without suitable training are less likely to win - that doesn't mean banning the game. Since we don't ban cigarettes (far more harmful financially and healthwise) - a clear warning on every cashback deal would be appropriate rather than mass hysteria.

I obvioiusly had an overrated opinion of you initially, blaming victims of crime is remeniscant of the attitude of the mobile operators themselves when they chose to decline a claim and is an outrage. Telling a victim of a crime they need to get a brain is an outright insult and a disgraceful attitude to have. Let us all know when you get mugged next so we can all have a good laugh because you walked down the wrong street at the wrong time, not that I would want to be wishing anything like that upon anyone in reality.

Why have cash backs when everyone could simply pay less in the first place, ok so it would not be as reduced as much as some winning and most losing for the winners only but then theres no balance to the current form and if your cashbacks are large then your at risk regardless of who you are with and what brain you have, if they are small then why have them when they could just be simply a reduced monthly fee after say 3 months or something ? At least it would be balanced and in a state of fair play and not subject to operator or retailer abuse where they can simply do things like say 'claim denied' for some silly reason like it arrived a day early on a 5 day window, and a 5 day window that is not defined specifically but very ambigously worded.

The thing is we have learnt, operators can simply abuse the sales method where contracts are concerned when they so chose to do so. Some win, many lose. Abused system == legislation required, its not the fault of the consumer and implying in anyway that it is is simply wrong.

mobilejunkie

I'm not sure people have learnt much at all judging by the mistakes they repeatedly make. Life isn't "fair" and no regulation or wishful thinking will make it so - usually it has the reverse effect. If this is a "crime" the police would prosecute (except, of course, they too have been "regulated" to only worry about the spin). Maybe the market is a crime - if so I prefer it to the alternative.

Anyone "denied" a claim for unjust reasons can sue; the fact so many DID learn THAT much is partly to blame for the demise of some of the merchants. There is leagl recourse in most cases. Anyone who put a substantial amount into a clear minnow was taking a disproportinate risk. Everyone seems to have been quite happy to get something for nothing - they didn't want to worry about how it was possible or anyone but themselves. Only when they lost out did they start to take umbridge. I still do these deals without hesitation if they are right. I criticise the practises of the dealers, but then I could do the same of most other organisations nowadays. Unfrotunately we live in a world of "spin" - crying to the absolute masters of that will be no-one's salvation.

My views may not be popular but this isn't a popularity contest. Maybe it would be easy to keep quiet; but there is such nonsense on here that my contribution at least challenges the apparently popular views. I repeat; I have lost money too with one dealer but have never thought of them or described them as crooks as a result. I have no interest as supplier and or affiliations with networks. I've probably done far more deals than most on here and therefore feel just as qualified to put what I believe is a more balanced and far less hysterical view. I am perfectly aware most won't agree; such is life and it doesn't mean I'm wrong!

alnsv1000s

With the drops in commissions that the dealers have had over the past year, to sustain the offers of the past and still have a business you would have to work on redemption rates of lower than 40%

Therefore at least 60% of redemptions would have to be wangled out of, resulting on CCJ's and then liquidation leaving the balance of the cashback customers with outstanding claims totally out of pocket.

Times have changed from the last 4 years and BIG Cashbacks just are not a viable business model any more.

Time to move on and legitamise the industry and make sure that legislation is in place to ensure that it doesn't come back as it was!

mobilejunkie

Commissions can go up as well as down when there's real competition. Stifling the industry and putting the handcuffs on is not in the interests of customers. Not all deals are 12 months free when they're around; even supermarkets have loss-leaders. People also get "stung" by sharp practices there too! I understand your points, but am miore than happy to take my "chances" in an industry where people have the right and freedom to make choices and weigh risks. The real losers in this will be customers - definitely not the networks or ultimately the dealers.