Homebuyers report - red ratings

julesldn

Hi All,

I am buying a Victorian end of terrace house built in c.1890 - I would really love your advice and help please, it's much appreciated!

We have had an offer accepted by the vendor (£20k below asking price, negotiated as we are chain free). We have received our Homebuyers report and the survey has highlighted that the property is in relatively poor condition, with two elements flagged in 'red' (condition rating 3) and sixteen elements flagged in 'amber' (condition rating 2). Despite the property's age, our initial impression was that it was tired but mainly needed decorative restorations and we weren't anticipating needing to carry out substantial urgent work but the 16 elements in amber have really caused alarm bells.

We'll ask the vendor if we can get an electrician and plumber to have a look at the 2 red points - would you budget for a full electrical rewire and combi boiler overhaul based on the below? If so, would you suggest getting quotations and trying to renegotiate the price down with the vendor?

We're already pushing ourselves financially to afford this property so it has come as a bit of a setback.

Condition Rating 3 (Red) - Defects that are serious and/or need to be repaired, replaced or investigated urgently

G1 Electricity 

"Mains electricity is connected to the property. The consumer unit is located under the stairs. The consumer unit is very dated and comprises domino cartridge circuit breakers. There is a lack of available socket provision for modern lifestyle requirements along with numerous skirting mounted single socket outlets. The wiring is likely to be similarly dated and should be tested for safety by a competent electrician. It would be prudent to budget for a full electrical rewire."

G5 Water heating

"Hot water is provided by the boiler and is stored in the copper cylinder. There is a secondary immersion heating element. This was not tested. The cylinder is extremely dated with very basic and inadequate insulation. This will be extremely inefficient and will yield poor hot water pressure. There is an extremely old, braided electrical cord serving the immersion heating element and the switch and socket appear to be Bakelite which will contain asbestos. The cylinder should be replaced with a modern mains pressure cylinder or removed completely and the installation changed to a combination boiler".

Here are the most worrying elements that were flagged in amber... there were 16 elements rated in amber but I've copied over the most worrying.

Do you think that any of these should be fully investigated before the purchase? Would you attempt to get a quotation and try to re negotiate the price based on any of the below? 

F3 Walls and partitions

"I carried out dampness tests to the perimeter walls, around window and door reveals, under flat roof areas, parapets and to chimney breasts wherever access was possible. I recorded high readings to the rear wall to the left hand side of the dining room French door and also to the right-hand side door reveal. The elevated moisture readings correspond to areas of damage externally to mortar/brickwork and these require making good. To the damp staining to the right hand side of the door reveal, the rear addition gutter end has also dropped which may lead to excessive rainwater cascading out during periods of heavy rainfall. This should be re-aligned."

E2 Roof coverings

"There is a brick parapet wall to the right hand side party wall line. This has a rendered finish to the inside face. This was found to be in poor condition and is cracked, spalling and deteriorating. This will require breaking out and re-casting."

"The front bay has a small timber mono-pitched hipped roof with a concrete tile covering. This was found to be in tired condition. The wearing surface has weathered and degraded resulting in a patchy appearance. This in turn, has led to greater moisture retention with resultant widespread moss growth. Over time this will lead to further spalling of the tile surface due to frost action. It would be prudent to budget for recovering this roof in the short to medium term."

E3 Rainwater pipes and gutters

"There are leaking gutter joints to the front bay which require dismantling and remaking. There is general debris and silt accumulation to the rear addition gutter which should be cleared and left free-flowing. The rear addition downpipe is terminated too high up the wall which will lead to water splash wetting the base of the flank kitchen wall with resultant penetrating damp problems. The downpipe should be extended to discharge directly into the drainage gulley."

E5 Windows

"The rear bedroom window has splits and openings to the sub-sill which will facilitate water ingress and eventual rot. These should be scraped out, filled and made good at the next available opportunity."

G4 Heating

"Central heating is provided by the gas fired Potterton Suprima boiler situated in the kitchen which provides heating via a selection of metal panel radiators which do not have individual thermostatic controls. The boiler appears to be over 20 years old but was operational at the time of inspection."

Thanks all for your help, really appreciate it!

greatcrested

julesldn said:

Hi All,

I am buying a Victorian end of terrace house built in c.1890 -........

the survey has highlighted that the property is in relatively poor condition, ......

Despite the property's age, our initial impression was that it was tired but mainly needed decorative restorations

it's an old property that has clearly not bee updated for some time - but you knew that from your viewings.

We'll ask the vendor if we can get an electrician and plumber to have a look at the 2 red points - would you budget for a full electrical rewire and combi boiler overhaul based on the below? If so, would you suggest getting quotations and trying to renegotiate the price down with the vendor?
I doubt the seller will re-negotiate. The property needs updating. The decorative work needed is clear indication of other work required. None of it is major though some does need doing.

I would not waste money on electrical or gas reports- just budget for a re-wire as the consumer unit suggests it will need it as do the lack of sockets.
We're already pushing ourselves financially to afford this property so it has come as a bit of a setback.

If you have no contingency fund ( eg for re-wire, possibly new boiler) then find a cheaper doer-upper, or a more modern (or modernised) property - this is neither modern nor modernised.

Condition Rating 3 (Red) - Defects that are serious and/or need to be repaired, replaced or investigated urgently

G1 Electricity 

"Mains electricity is connected to the property. The consumer unit is located under the stairs. The consumer unit is very dated and comprises domino cartridge circuit breakers. There is a lack of available socket provision for modern lifestyle requirements along with numerous skirting mounted single socket outlets. The wiring is likely to be similarly dated and should be tested for safety by a competent electrician. It would be prudent to budget for a full electrical rewire."

Forget the test - just assume re-wire is needed.

G5 Water heating

"Hot water is provided by the boiler and is stored in the copper cylinder. There is a secondary immersion heating element. This was not tested. The cylinder is extremely dated with very basic and inadequate insulation. This will be extremely inefficient and will yield poor hot water pressure. There is an extremely old, braided electrical cord serving the immersion heating element and the switch and socket appear to be Bakelite which will contain asbestos. The cylinder should be replaced with a modern mains pressure cylinder or removed completely and the installation changed to a combination boiler".
The cylinder is probably fine - just needs lots of insulation added ( £20?). As how water will come primarily from the boiler, that is what matters (and that is not mentioned!). The electrics for the immersion heater (which is only a back-up) can be sorted when you do the re-wireng.
Here are the most worrying elements that were flagged in amber... there were 16 elements rated in amber but I've copied over the most worrying.

Do you think that any of these should be fully investigated before the purchase? Would you attempt to get a quotation and try to re negotiate the price based on any of the below? 

F3 Walls and partitions

"I carried out dampness tests to the perimeter walls, around window and door reveals, under flat roof areas, parapets and to chimney breasts wherever access was possible. I recorded high readings to the rear wall to the left hand side of the dining room French door and also to the right-hand side door reveal. The elevated moisture readings correspond to areas of damage externally to mortar/brickwork and these require making good.

So some re-pointing to the brickwork. (loose cement between the bricks). Not hard to fix. Cost will not be huge but obviously depends how extensive. That will sort out the damp

To the damp staining to the right hand side of the door reveal, the rear addition gutter end has also dropped which may lead to excessive rainwater cascading out during periods of heavy rainfall. This should be re-aligned."

Gutters and downpipes are trivial. Man on ladder for 1 hour. That will sort out the damp.

E2 Roof coverings

"There is a brick parapet wall to the right hand side party wall line. This has a rendered finish to the inside face. This was found to be in poor condition and is cracked, spalling and deteriorating. This will require breaking out and re-casting."

Does not sound urgent. Do it when you have time and money. Next year or two?

"The front bay has a small timber mono-pitched hipped roof with a concrete tile covering. This was found to be in tired condition. The wearing surface has weathered and degraded resulting in a patchy appearance. This in turn, has led to greater moisture retention with resultant widespread moss growth. Over time this will lead to further spalling of the tile surface due to frost action. It would be prudent to budget for recovering this roof in the short to medium term."

Just clean off the moss and replace the odd tile that may be slipped or cracked. When you do the parapet (above), re-do the bay roof at the same time.

E3 Rainwater pipes and gutters

"There are leaking gutter joints to the front bay which require dismantling and remaking. There is general debris and silt accumulation to the rear addition gutter which should be cleared and left free-flowing. The rear addition downpipe is terminated too high up the wall which will lead to water splash wetting the base of the flank kitchen wall with resultant penetrating damp problems. The downpipe should be extended to discharge directly into the drainage gulley."

Clean the gutters! And that man o a ladder? Get him to adjust the downpipes etc. Trivial.

E5 Windows

"The rear bedroom window has splits and openings to the sub-sill which will facilitate water ingress and eventual rot. These should be scraped out, filled and made good at the next available opportunity."

I assume the sill is wood. Wood windows need periodic maintenance. (rubbing down and re-painting). If the wood has split/rotted a bit as here, use woodfiller first. An afternoon's work and £20.

G4 Heating

"Central heating is provided by the gas fired Potterton Suprima boiler situated in the kitchen which provides heating via a selection of metal panel radiators which do not have individual thermostatic controls. The boiler appears to be over 20 years old but was operational at the time of inspection."

Ah! So yes, there's your boiler (as I said, the immersion heater is a back-up only). It's old but works. Like my car. And I'm not changing my car just because it's old!

Nothing there is major, but yes, a few jobs needed straight away - as you'd expect on a property that's not  been modernised and could perhaps have been better maintained. Nothing very surprising or expensive.

All depends if you are up for doing these jobs, have a bit put aside,or whether you are looking for a pristine property.

FreeBear

greatcrested said: So some re-pointing to the brickwork. (loose cement between the bricks). Not hard to fix. Cost will not be huge but obviously depends how extensive. That will sort out the damp

On an 1890s property, a lime mortar would be best - Easy to rake out the old joints (as long as cement hasn't been used in the past) to a depth of 25mm or so. With a finger trowel, press new mortar in to the wetted joint. Have a look at this vid for a nifty tool & "how to" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=811RvqR-ECw

Electrics & boiler is to be expected if the house is tired as you describe - Worth budgeting for a full rewire and boiler replacement. While the floors are up for the rewire, check the state of the CH plumbing, and consider replacing the radiators with modern ones sized for the rooms. New radiators are a little more efficient and look much better in my opinion.

Angela_D_3

HOuses are money pits IME, you either need to have £5,000 saved for emergency repairs if you own a house or £5,000 saved to move at 2 months notice if you rent.  

RelievedSheff

There is nothing that you have listed there that is unexpected for an older house.

You have already secured the property for £20k under the asking price so I seriously doubt the vendor is going to negotiate any lower. 

SameOldRoundabout

I would just leave the price as it is. A full rewire will probably be in order, and maybe replacement heating system, but all of that would have been visible on viewing. It’s so important to look at things like consumer boards when you’re viewing. For an old house that survey is pretty decent, we certainly had a lot worse on ours!