Bannatynes gym membership

Dr_Crypto

Maybe not but as they were closed they were unable to acknowledge the cancellation request.
The closure effectively stopped the clock on everything. 

Thrugelmir

jfinnie said:

I don't think it is OK for companies to unilaterally decide to extend contracts by putting them to sleep when it suits them.  This doesn't take account of whether it suits the other party.

In other words the Company concerned has to take the full financial hit with no opportunity to recover any of it's losses. The consumer simply walks away. Expecting yet another free lunch. 

onwards&upwards

Thrugelmir said:

jfinnie said:

I don't think it is OK for companies to unilaterally decide to extend contracts by putting them to sleep when it suits them.  This doesn't take account of whether it suits the other party.

In other words the Company concerned has to take the full financial hit with no opportunity to recover any of it's losses. The consumer simply walks away. Expecting yet another free lunch. 

Isn't that a risk of running a business?  

I mean, I used to go to the cinema most weeks pre-lockdown.  Should Odeon be able to keep billing me for the films I would have seen had they been open?  By not continuing to support Odeon despite being a regular customer of theirs am I walking away with a 'free lunch' while they take the full financial hit?

unholyangel

Dr_Crypto said:

Maybe not but as they were closed they were unable to acknowledge the cancellation request.
The closure effectively stopped the clock on everything. 

Not legally it doesn't. Even if they were stopped from trading, they still could have responded to mail. It was their choice not to, therefore they can't put the risk resulting from that decision on their members. 

Dr_Crypto

What’s the legal basis for that argument? 

The T&Cs seem clear that the notice starts when it is acknowledged. They don’t make any mention of what happens if the business is closed and cannot acknowledge the request. 

jfinnie

Thrugelmir said:

jfinnie said:

I don't think it is OK for companies to unilaterally decide to extend contracts by putting them to sleep when it suits them.  This doesn't take account of whether it suits the other party.

In other words the Company concerned has to take the full financial hit with no opportunity to recover any of it's losses. The consumer simply walks away. Expecting yet another free lunch. 

Nonsense, not a free lunch, it's paying for the lunch you've had and not paying for the lunch you didn't get.

onwards&upwards

Dr_Crypto said:

What’s the legal basis for that argument? 

The T&Cs seem clear that the notice starts when it is acknowledged. They don’t make any mention of what happens if the business is closed and cannot acknowledge the request. 

Not likely to be an enforceable clause as unfair to the customer, leaving them with potentially no way to end the contract and stop paying if the gym chooses not to acknowledge. 

The courts don't require acknowledgement of papers/notices for them to be valid, if there is proof they were sent that is acceptable.  I doubt a judge would consider it acceptable for a gym to. 

unholyangel

Dr_Crypto said:

What’s the legal basis for that argument? 

The T&Cs seem clear that the notice starts when it is acknowledged. They don’t make any mention of what happens if the business is closed and cannot acknowledge the request. 

Well I was going to explain about unfair contract terms etc but it will probably be far simpler if I point out the "term" about acknowledgement isn't actually a term at all. It's on the model cancellation form but nowhere in the terms & conditions themselves. 

What the terms actually say:

7.1. Where you have a good reason for ending the contract.
You may end the contract between us by giving us not less than 30 days' written notice at any time, such notice to expire on the last day of the following month (including during the Initial Fixed Term or a Subsequent Fixed Term) if:
7.1.4. we commit a serious breach of any provision of these terms;

I mean never mind that they can't tell you that you need to give notice when they're in serious breach but their terms also state:

7.2. Where you have another good reason for ending the contract. You may end the contract between us by giving us written notice at any time, such notice to expire on the last day of the month in which you provide such notice (including during the Initial Fixed Term or a Subsequent Fixed Term) if you are likely to be unable to use the Club, by reason of a serious injury or illness, for a period of at least two months (and you are able to provide reasonable evidence of this to us, such as a doctor's certificate). 

But more importantly, their terms say this - and personally if they were being !!!!!! to me about me cancelling, I'd be throwing this term back at them with a claim for damages:

12.1. We are not responsible for things outside our control. If our performance of our obligations under the contract is affected by an event outside our control we will not be liable to you for this provided we try to work around the issue. 

That is a foot in mouth term - how can they simultaneously claim to be trying to work around the issue and also that they weren't working at all (so couldn't acknowlege the cancellation)? 

jfinnie

onwards&upwards said:

Dr_Crypto said:

What’s the legal basis for that argument? 

The T&Cs seem clear that the notice starts when it is acknowledged. They don’t make any mention of what happens if the business is closed and cannot acknowledge the request. 

Not likely to be an enforceable clause as unfair to the customer, leaving them with potentially no way to end the contract and stop paying if the gym chooses not to acknowledge. 

The courts don't require acknowledgement of papers/notices for them to be valid, if there is proof they were sent that is acceptable.  I doubt a judge would consider it acceptable for a gym to. 

And in fact, the gym are actually in breach of their own agreement in deciding unilaterally that they won't bother replying to you in the 7 days that they set out in their agreement in the first place, when clearly it would have been quite feasible for them to set themselves up in such a way to do so. All these posts in support of these gyms - notoriously inflexible in their contract interpretations when a customer needs it - are really quite baffling.

unholyangel

jfinnie said:

onwards&upwards said:

Dr_Crypto said:

What’s the legal basis for that argument? 

The T&Cs seem clear that the notice starts when it is acknowledged. They don’t make any mention of what happens if the business is closed and cannot acknowledge the request. 

Not likely to be an enforceable clause as unfair to the customer, leaving them with potentially no way to end the contract and stop paying if the gym chooses not to acknowledge. 

The courts don't require acknowledgement of papers/notices for them to be valid, if there is proof they were sent that is acceptable.  I doubt a judge would consider it acceptable for a gym to. 

And in fact, the gym are actually in breach of their own agreement in deciding unilaterally that they won't bother replying to you in the 7 days that they set out in their agreement in the first place, when clearly it would have been quite feasible for them to set themselves up in such a way to do so. All these posts in support of these gyms - notoriously inflexible in their contract interpretations when a customer needs it - are really quite baffling.

As per my post, that isn't actually in the contract. Its only on the model cancellation form - which is something they need to provide under the consumer contracts (information, cancellation & additional charges) regulations but although the trader has an obligation to make such a form available, the consumer has no obligation to use it to cancel. It is also a requirement of the same regulations that if the consumer uses the form, the trader needs to acknowledge receipt of the form by durable medium without delay and that the cancellation is effective when it is sent. 

Actual T&C's don't have any mention of acknowledging cancellation.