fire and rehire

Is this legal for a company to do?
My husband's company have given notice to fire and 're hire if the staff don't agree to the new terms.
Basically they propose new terms.. if they don't agree they will be fired and 're hired on it anyway.
he's worked for them for 15 years.. he won't get a redundancy pay out as the job is still there.
the union are saying it's not unfair dismissal and they wouldn't win on that front as there is a job to take and its his choice not to.
any advice appreciated.

thanks

Karen 
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Replies

  • getmore4lessgetmore4less Forumite
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    What change in terms? 
  • Sorcerer2018Sorcerer2018 Forumite
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    So what you are saying is that if he doesn't agree the new terms, they are going to give him a job anyway. Normally if you don't agree to the terms you will be made redundant.
  • edited 7 August 2020 at 2:27PM
    UndervaluedUndervalued Forumite
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    edited 7 August 2020 at 2:27PM
    Yes, basically they can.

    His only option if he is not willing to agree to the new terms (assuming informal negotiation doesn't work) is to resign and claim unfair dismissal. (Note is is not constructive unfair dismissal under these circumstances despite the resignation). It would then be up to a tribunal to decide if the new terms are reasonable under the circumstances. Given his union's advice it seems unlikely he would win.
  • p00hsticksp00hsticks Forumite
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    Normally if you don't agree to the terms you will be made redundant.
    No, if you don't agree to the new terms you will be assumed to have resigned - you can then try to claim unfair dismissal if you don't beleive the change in terms was reasonable.

  • nicechapnicechap Forumite
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    Is this legal for a company to do?
    My husband's company have given notice to fire and 're hire if the staff don't agree to the new terms.
    Basically they propose new terms.. if they don't agree they will be fired and 're hired on it anyway.
    he's worked for them for 15 years.. he won't get a redundancy pay out as the job is still there.
    the union are saying it's not unfair dismissal and they wouldn't win on that front as there is a job to take and its his choice not to.
    any advice appreciated.

    thanks

    Karen 
    As I understand it, under the current British Airways restructuring, staff are getting redundancy payments before being rehired - you husband may want to ask his union why that isn't happening for him.
    Originally Posted by shortcrust
    "Contact the Ministry of Fairness....If sufficient evidence of unfairness is discovered you’ll get an apology, a permanent contract with backdated benefits, a ‘Let’s Make it Fair!’ tshirt and mug, and those guilty of unfairness will be sent on a Fairness Awareness course."
  • Karen1980_LilyKaren1980_Lily Forumite
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    Thanks for the replies so far.. it seems that the company are saying unless they agree to the new conditions..
    an extra 3hrs on the working week with no pay,
    losing holiday entitlement of 2 to 4 days,
    his contracted hours to be from 8 to 4 moved to 6am to 11pm
    no overtime as paid at basic 7 days a week.

    they will then do redundancies if people can't agree to these terms and the people left will have the accept them.

    He's been told that as they are offering a contract all habit massively inferior there will be no redundancy option if they don't want to sign for it. 

    it's really confusing..  I don't understand how it's legal to force inferior working conditions into propel. he's worked for the company's 15 years.

    I would have thought it was reasonable to argue unfair dismissal especially as the business conditions have not been a result of covid. The union seem to think they wouldn't win as the company is still offering some kind of employment.

  • Karen1980_LilyKaren1980_Lily Forumite
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    So what you are saying is that if he doesn't agree the new terms, they are going to give him a job anyway. Normally if you don't agree to the terms you will be made redundant.
    I would have thought they should do that  but, it would cost them alot. He company have said if you aren't happy perhaps you should look to go somewhere else!
  • edited 10 August 2020 at 8:10AM
    UndervaluedUndervalued Forumite
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    edited 10 August 2020 at 8:10AM
    Thanks for the replies so far.. it seems that the company are saying unless they agree to the new conditions..
    an extra 3hrs on the working week with no pay,
    losing holiday entitlement of 2 to 4 days,
    his contracted hours to be from 8 to 4 moved to 6am to 11pm
    no overtime as paid at basic 7 days a week.

    they will then do redundancies if people can't agree to these terms and the people left will have the accept them.

    He's been told that as they are offering a contract all habit massively inferior there will be no redundancy option if they don't want to sign for it. 

    it's really confusing..  I don't understand how it's legal to force inferior working conditions into propel. he's worked for the company's 15 years.

    I would have thought it was reasonable to argue unfair dismissal especially as the business conditions have not been a result of covid. The union seem to think they wouldn't win as the company is still offering some kind of employment.

    It all depends on the circumstances. Big, big changes to employment terms have been held to be reasonable by employment tribunals when the alternative would be no job at all.

    Obviously his union is best placed to advise as they have the full details and access to top class legal advice. That said, as always with unions in these situations, they will be looking at the overall picture for the majority of their members. That is not always the same thing as the best outcome that could be achieved for one individual member regardless of the rest.

    He could seek independent legal advice but be aware that if he does so and the union find out they will very likely drop all support.
  • Karen1980_LilyKaren1980_Lily Forumite
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    Thank you. that's what the union advised..  unlikely to win unfair dismissal as there is still a job on offer 
  • nicechapnicechap Forumite
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    Thanks for the replies so far.. it seems that the company are saying unless they agree to the new conditions..
    an extra 3hrs on the working week with no pay,
    losing holiday entitlement of 2 to 4 days,
    his contracted hours to be from 8 to 4 moved to 6am to 11pm
    no overtime as paid at basic 7 days a week.

    they will then do redundancies if people can't agree to these terms and the people left will have the accept them.

    He's been told that as they are offering a contract all habit massively inferior there will be no redundancy option if they don't want to sign for it. 

    it's really confusing..  I don't understand how it's legal to force inferior working conditions into propel. he's worked for the company's 15 years.

    I would have thought it was reasonable to argue unfair dismissal especially as the business conditions have not been a result of covid. The union seem to think they wouldn't win as the company is still offering some kind of employment.

    Sounds very like the British Airways approach, those who volunteer get enhanced terms and no job, those that don't and don't get a job offer just get statutory redundancy.
    Originally Posted by shortcrust
    "Contact the Ministry of Fairness....If sufficient evidence of unfairness is discovered you’ll get an apology, a permanent contract with backdated benefits, a ‘Let’s Make it Fair!’ tshirt and mug, and those guilty of unfairness will be sent on a Fairness Awareness course."
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