PayPal Scam - PayPal chasing for money

Sammy5

Hi all,

My partner bought something on eBay and it didn't turn up.  She notified them and they apologised, refunded the money and gave her extra compensation.  For me personally, at that point alarm bells might be ringing, but she's very new to this.  When they gave the refund, they asked her to set up a PayPal account and did it as a new transaction.  They then claimed an item didn't arrive, even though she has never sold anything on eBay in her life.  Because she wasn't expecting any payments or anything from PayPal, she hadn't realised they'd been sending e-mails which had been going to her spam folder (like the rest of us, she had a lot of phishing scam e-mails from PayPal fakers too).  Ultimately she had no idea this person had opened a case against her, but they found in their favour.  They now state that she owes them £50 and are demanding she pays it.  I am guessing this is a common scam, although I hadn't heard of it before (I've got a feedback rating of 4,000 on eBay and hadn't seen it before).  They are getting really nasty on the phone with her now.  Please could someone advise if we have any reason to worry about legal action?  I know it's easy to say it, but she really hasn't done anything wrong.  She has been a little naïve, perhaps, but nothing more than that.  It seems cruel that a huge company like PayPal can refund someone without any evidence of having made a purchase, then demand she pay them when they didn't even ask for basic information from the supposed buyer in the first place.  To me, it seems that they are victims of their own refund policy?

She's really worried and very upset, so any help you can offer would be much appreciated.

Many thanks,

Sam

Sammy5

Forgot to say, she went back on eBay to see the email trail to send to PayPal and the guy was no longer listed as an active seller. She sent screenshots of this, along with the email where the guy confirmed he was the seller and would refund. PayPal had originally told her they needed compelling evidence but are now saying they can't accept anything outside of PayPal as evidence! So they're disregarding the evidence showing she was the buyer and are adamant they can't reopen a case.

custardy

Sorry. This makes little sense.
'They' Apologised? Ebay,the seller?
How did she pay originally if she was being asked to set up a Paypal account?

Sammy5

Sorry, the seller apologised and refunded. The original payment to the seller was via ebay, not paypal

custardy

Sammy5 said:

Sorry, the seller apologised and refunded. The original payment to the seller was via ebay, not paypal

So she paid via ebay by inputting card details?

Sammy5

The item was bought on eBay using credit/debit card details.  The seller apologised when the item didn't arrive and said they needed to refund using PayPal, so she set up a PayPal account and they sent the 'refund' as they said they would, along with an additional £20.  Again, to me that seems suspicious.  But she rarely buys anything on eBay, so it didn't seem obvious to her.  As far as she was concerned, the matter was closed.  But PayPal have been sending suspicious looking e-mails and sending automated calls with 'robot voice' which only cut in halfway through, so she thought these were a scam as she hadn't bought anything using PayPal other than this one thing six months previous.

I get fake PayPal e-mails on almost a weekly basis, so I don't blame her for thinking they were phishing scams.

Sammy5

So, to clarify:

1) My partner bought something on eBay using her card details

2) The item didn't arrive

3) My partner asked for a refund

4) The SELLER asked her to set up a PayPal account so they could refund her (which they did - as a payment to her)

5) She withdrew the money to her bank account and closed the case on eBay

6) The SELLER then opened a case against her on PayPal, posing as a buyer, for an undelivered item (which never existed, as she hasn't sold anything)

7)  PayPal's suspicious looking emails, along with their suspicious automated call system meant that she didn't respond to her case - why would she expect an open case of course, given that she hasn't sold anything ever or bought anything in months

8)  PayPal closed in the SELLERS favour (posing as the buyer), without a shred of evidence that anything was ever sold, or even an item number or description.

9)  They expect her to pay them money because they refunded someone without asking for any evidence in relation to the supposed purchase, despite the fact when she presents them with screen prints from her eBay account showing nothing sold during that period or even purchased, they say that's a transaction outside PayPal and therefore they cannot consider it.  They also say that once a case is closed then it can't be revisited, so my partner should just stop arguing and pay up.  Pay up for their mistake!

They are acting like cowboys.  Could someone legally demand money from someone when they have no proof that any transaction ever actually took place?  If this went to court (I would think unlikely given the sum of £50 involved), would they be taken seriously?  It seems utterly bizarre that they're acting like this, given the fact that it's their policy (which is clearly open to fraud) which has been taken advantage of.

theonlywayisup

If I am reading this correctly then;

Your partner has gone about this entirely incorrectly.

He/she may still be able to open an INR (item not received) claim on Paypal as they allow 180 days from purchase.  However, as the purchase was as a 'guest' (not logging in but inputting credit/debit card details) the claim can only be opened on the telephone. 

The 'refund' that was given by the other party wasn't a refund but appears to have been a 'payment for goods or services' with an inducement for your partner to think this was correct. 

The 'refund' needs to be repaid into the paypal account as this transaction is nothing to do with the original transaction.

Sammy5

She has had an account on eBay for quite a long time, but doesn't use it often.  She paid on eBay using her card details, but she wasn't a 'guest'.  I fully agree what the seller did was wrong, but she clearly didn't know that.  She paid on eBay in December and he 'refunded' via PayPal in January.  He then opened his case in May on PayPal and it closed just outside that 180 day period.  His account is now closed on eBay.  PayPal refuse to accept evidence from outside sources such as eBay, even though her account clearly shows nothing sold in that period and that the fraudsters' account has been closed.  They simply keep repeating that once a case is closed then that is final - they have now set a debt collection company onto my partner.  I don't really understand why they won't accept evidence from outside PayPal, why they won't revisit the case or indeed why they thought it was acceptable to refund a payment without requesting any evidence of a purchase in the first place.  My partner has repeatedly asked them to explain what this guy supposedly bought from her, but they refuse to tell her.  I don't really understand how in any legal scenario they would have a legitimate case, given she had no idea they were refunding money from her account to a fraudster and that they clearly haven't taken suitable precautions to avoid a case of fraud.  They make themselves and their customers huge targets if they aren't even prepared to show a little bit of caution with their money back guarantees etc..

forgotmyname

You can use Paypal for other purchases, it is not exclusive to ebay.  If you want to know what they claim to have
purchased check the original payment email. Should state goods or services or possibly an item.

Not bought anything on ebay for a month or so now yet there are 3 payments taken by Paypal for purchases. 
CPC for example take Paypal directly.

theonlywayisup

Sammy5 said:

She has had an account on eBay for quite a long time, but doesn't use it often.  She paid on eBay using her card details, but she wasn't a 'guest'.  I fully agree what the seller did was wrong, but she clearly didn't know that.  She paid on eBay in December and he 'refunded' via PayPal in January.  He then opened his case in May on PayPal and it closed just outside that 180 day period.  His account is now closed on eBay.  PayPal refuse to accept evidence from outside sources such as eBay, even though her account clearly shows nothing sold in that period and that the fraudsters' account has been closed.  They simply keep repeating that once a case is closed then that is final - they have now set a debt collection company onto my partner.  I don't really understand why they won't accept evidence from outside PayPal, why they won't revisit the case or indeed why they thought it was acceptable to refund a payment without requesting any evidence of a purchase in the first place.  My partner has repeatedly asked them to explain what this guy supposedly bought from her, but they refuse to tell her.  I don't really understand how in any legal scenario they would have a legitimate case, given she had no idea they were refunding money from her account to a fraudster and that they clearly haven't taken suitable precautions to avoid a case of fraud.  They make themselves and their customers huge targets if they aren't even prepared to show a little bit of caution with their money back guarantees etc..

None of this matters.  She had a payment sent to her - for 180 days the person sending that payment can open a case.  It also doesn't matter that it closes outside of this period, the 180 day is for the case to open.  You will not get anywhere chasing THIS payment situation.  You NEEDED to be chasing the original payment - but it sounds like you are outside the 180 days.