Non fault car accident and injury

ps124

Hi All, wondering if someone can advise here as this is the first time I've been in this situation.

I've was traveling home with my family over the weekend and was hit from behind by another driver. Thankfully no one was seriously injured but my 9 year old daughter suffered a lower back injury during the incident. When I finally got home, we called 111 to get advice as she was struggling to stand and was complaining of pain. Today, 2 days later, the upper part of my left shoulder and left side of my neck is sore and feeling strained. Not sure if this is related to the collision.

The other driver was very apologetic, and it seemed to be a very genuine mistake. He has admitted fault and his insurance company have been in touch with me about fixing my car directly to keep their costs down and their legal team have also tried to contact me about my daughters injuries.

So my questions are:

1. My own insurance company are claiming I should go with them for the repairs as they can ensure I get the best repair on my car, guarantee the genuine manufacturer parts are used and also the benefit of dealing with them direct as opposed to the 3rd party. They have said its a non fault claim so they have put me in touch with a sub company who only deal with non-fault claims so my own insurance isn't effected. Has anybody gone through this and can they advise on what the best course of action is here? 

2. I don't have legal cover but should I go with my own insurance company who have suggested they can help with a personal injury claim? Or should I look elsewhere at those no win no fee type solicitors? Any experiences/advice would be useful. Should I be doing something to ensure my daughter's injuries are recorded? We've already had a telephone consultation with my GP. But they and 111 advised to take Calpol, rest, hot/cold press etc

Thanks.

davidmcn

ps124 said:

should I look elsewhere at those no win no fee type solicitors?

I'm not sure it makes a great deal of difference which solicitors you use (particularly for a minor injury) but in general "no win no fee" is only an appropriate basis if there's actually some doubt that you'd win - which obviously there isn't here.

Sandtree

1) Be careful with going with their accident management company... they will do everything on credit and then attempt to reclaim the costs from the other side however as the other side have already offered assistance there can be disputes on the highly inflated prices the accident management company charge... be very open with them that the TPI have been in contact and offered services and read the agreement properly before signing it or progressing with anything!

There are certain advantages of going via your own insurers, not the accident management company, in that if anything goes wrong you can go to the Financial Ombudsman Service (after following due process) but you cannot do this with either the AXM or TPI... that said, obviously most repairs dont go wrong. The downside is that you may only get offered a basic courtesy car if going via your own insurance but if this is not suitable for your needs I am sure the TPI will arrange a hire car for you even if your insurers are dealing with the repairs.


2) Depending on which side of the fence you are sitting on claiming for injuries directly either benefits everyone but the lawyers or is an easy way for the TPI to rip you off. The fact that there is a minor involved means there will be more safeguards anyway.

No Win, No Fee can be fine but people always seem to forget that if they win there is a fee... this legally can be up to 20% + VAT of the award however the percentages vary significantly between providers. As always there is a counter argument that if the solicitor is charging 0% then they have no vested interest in getting you a bigger award and will suggest accepting lower offers simply to shift volume whereas those going for 20% will have a motivation for doing better and will potentially increase the settlement by more than their fee to you. Personally dont particularly buy it given a) the code of ethics lawyers have to follow and b) given the average settlement is say £4,000 so 20% extra would be £800 but the solicitor gets 20% of that £160... how many extra hours is a solicitor going to do for £160? Its roughly the hourly rate of a junior associate in London.

ps124

Sandtree said:

1) Be careful with going with their accident management company... they will do everything on credit and then attempt to reclaim the costs from the other side however as the other side have already offered assistance there can be disputes on the highly inflated prices the accident management company charge... be very open with them that the TPI have been in contact and offered services and read the agreement properly before signing it or progressing with anything!

There are certain advantages of going via your own insurers, not the accident management company, in that if anything goes wrong you can go to the Financial Ombudsman Service (after following due process) but you cannot do this with either the AXM or TPI... that said, obviously most repairs dont go wrong. The downside is that you may only get offered a basic courtesy car if going via your own insurance but if this is not suitable for your needs I am sure the TPI will arrange a hire car for you even if your insurers are dealing with the repairs.


2) Depending on which side of the fence you are sitting on claiming for injuries directly either benefits everyone but the lawyers or is an easy way for the TPI to rip you off. The fact that there is a minor involved means there will be more safeguards anyway.

No Win, No Fee can be fine but people always seem to forget that if they win there is a fee... this legally can be up to 20% + VAT of the award however the percentages vary significantly between providers. As always there is a counter argument that if the solicitor is charging 0% then they have no vested interest in getting you a bigger award and will suggest accepting lower offers simply to shift volume whereas those going for 20% will have a motivation for doing better and will potentially increase the settlement by more than their fee to you. Personally dont particularly buy it given a) the code of ethics lawyers have to follow and b) given the average settlement is say £4,000 so 20% extra would be £800 but the solicitor gets 20% of that £160... how many extra hours is a solicitor going to do for £160? Its roughly the hourly rate of a junior associate in London.

Thank you for the responses.

I have been open with my insurance company that the TPI has offered to carry out the repairs and when I spoke to the their accident management company and found out I had to enter a credit agreement, that worried me. So I called my insurers again and they said it was normal and that because it was a non-fault claim, I should do it through them to avoid claiming on my insurance. If i went through insurance, I would have to pay my excess which is really high and its a claim (regardless of fault). They also said going through the TPI for repairs poses risks in that if things go wrong with the repairs further down the line, I would have to deal with them direct whereas going through my insurer's accident management company, I could go to my insurance company to deal with it.

The TPI have been very open in that they called and explained to keep the costs down, they want to do the repairs.

I'm so confused now...No idea who is giving the right advice, and who is not in trying to save themselves money/get the most money out of someone else!

Sandtree

Who are your insurers? Assuming it is an insurer and not a broker I could probably guess.

Credit Hire is fairly normal, the pay very good commission for referrals and if its a subsidiary even better as a) they almost always will give a like for like replacement whereas others will convince you to take something lower and b) the rates are at least 2.5 times what a big insurer would pay on a direct deal.

So if you had a Mercedes C320 and I was the TPI I would try and get you to take something like a Ford Mondeo at £20/day or if you incisted you must have a Merc then I'd have suggested a C180 which I can get for £35/day... Credit Hire will put words into your mouth why you need like for like and the current GTA rate for a C320 is £165/day.

Whichever route you take you will have to declare the incident to future insurers so your current insurers are being a little disingenuous there. They are correct that you are contractually obliged to pay the excess if you claim from them, though many insurers waive the excess in clear non-fault cases with a confirmed TPI, but claiming the excess back is the matter of one letter and a photocopy of the receipt that you paid it.

ps124

Hi Sandtree, my insurers are Admiral. However they have said as its a non fault, they will pass me to another company who will deal with all non fault claims. I basically don't need to the pay the access as I would have going with my insurers, and its not claimed against my insurance. However my concern was this company want me to enter into an credit agreement but friends have told me its normal and its only there to protect them in the event I made a fraudulent claim. In my case, as the TPI have accepted liability, there shouldn't be a problem and its 'procedure'. Should I go with them, my insurers (while paying the excess), or the TPI?

Someone told me never to go with the TPI as they want to keep the costs low, they would try and get the car repaired as cheap as possible.

I'm not even concerned about what hire car i get etc. I just want the car repaired asap, at no cost or hassle as it was someone that went into me. Thoughts? Should I just go with thew non fault company?

Petriix

I strongly recommend negotiating directly with the third party insurers and simply contacting your own insurers for 'information only'. When negotiating, regularly remind them that, if they are in any way short of acceptable in their settlement, you may need to take them to court and they would then have to pay your legal fees as well.

Keep track of all your reasonable losses and they will highly likely pay a fair settlement. You don't have to accept their first offer or their valuation of your car. Be firm but fair and remain courteous.

ps124

Petriix said:

I strongly recommend negotiating directly with the third party insurers and simply contacting your own insurers for 'information only'. When negotiating, regularly remind them that, if they are in any way short of acceptable in their settlement, you may need to take them to court and they would then have to pay your legal fees as well.

Keep track of all your reasonable losses and they will highly likely pay a fair settlement. You don't have to accept their first offer or their valuation of your car. Be firm but fair and remain courteous.

Thank you...but isn't this a risky ploy in that their prime focus will be to get the car repaired as cheaply as possible to keep the costs down?

Petriix

You're not obliged to accept their offer. You should get a couple of independent quotes for the repair as evidence. If you play it right then it's a win-win: you minimise their costs by avoiding the parasitic claims management companies and expensive legal bills and they maximise the cash in your pocket at the end of the day. 

rs65

ps124 said:

Someone told me never to go with the TPI as they want to keep the costs low, they would try and get the car repaired as cheap as possible.

I'm not even concerned about what hire car i get etc. I just want the car repaired asap, at no cost or hassle as it was someone that went into me. Thoughts? Should I just go with thew non fault company?

Both insurers want to keep the cost down.

The TPI will want it repaired as quickly as possible to minimise hire car costs

Sandtree

ps124 said:

Petriix said:

I strongly recommend negotiating directly with the third party insurers and simply contacting your own insurers for 'information only'. When negotiating, regularly remind them that, if they are in any way short of acceptable in their settlement, you may need to take them to court and they would then have to pay your legal fees as well.

Keep track of all your reasonable losses and they will highly likely pay a fair settlement. You don't have to accept their first offer or their valuation of your car. Be firm but fair and remain courteous.

Thank you...but isn't this a risky ploy in that their prime focus will be to get the car repaired as cheaply as possible to keep the costs down?

Who doesnt want to keep costs down? Only the credit hire company is interested in pushing the costs up due to the high hire car charges and the kickbacks from the repair garages etc.

But which is more expensive... saying someone can only have a Group A hire car which costs the TPI £10/day and risking them going to credit hire which gives them a Group D car at £42/day or having a conversation and hopefully get them to take a Group C but ultimately agree to a Group D at £17 a day.

My very first job in insurance was dealing with 100% fault claims without injury and whilst I certainly paid out a lot more, I certainly had a good percentage of people who said they'd be getting a quote from us at renewal because of the positive claims experience they had and I know that lead to a decent number of sales... obviously we'd still rather our customers had applied their brakes properly in the first place!

Working in the industry I won't advise you to do one thing or the other, just give you the information to consider when making your own choice. As exampled previously, speak to someone who works for an AXM or ULR type company and they will be more pro dealing with their type of firms.

My biggest word of caution is that if you do go down the credit route make absolutely sure that they are aware that the TPI has offered full services prior to them making contact with you. In my day, which is a while ago now, we would only pay the credit companies what our commercial rates were if we'd offered assistance first and the AXM had come along after. There was one company in particular (they only do prestige cars and minis) that we know would go back to their clients when we only would pay 20% of their bills - their rates were crazy and not part of the ABI GTA scheme.