No refund for Majorca - PLEASE help

mrsmb_2

Hi, I'm a new poster and it's looking like we have just lost £2.4k on a holiday for a family of four to Majorca, so please be gentle!  I'll try to give as much detail as possible, as I know each case is unique.
We booked a package holiday (confirmed package on ATOL certificate) last September with lastminute.com to travel to Majorca this coming Wednesday.  Flights are with BA from Heathrow into Palma.  The flights are still going ahead.  We are on the last flight of the day each way, and having followed the flight checker on the BA website, these are never cancelled, I suspect to ensure that no passengers are stranded overnight at the airport.  The hotel is open and has a confirmed booking (I emailed them directly, but the hotel was booked as part of the package).  
We originally requested a cancellation, prepared to forfeit our deposit of £600.  They sent a cancellation quote which equated the total cost of the trip.  They referred us to the terms and conditions which stated that the balance of the holiday was payable if we cancelled, and this applied from the date we booked the trip - there was no sliding scale of cancellation fee.  On hearing this news, we decided that we would go and make the best of it because we couldn't justify paying for a holiday and then not taking it.  We paid the balance by credit card on 21st July before the 2 week quarantine and FCO advice was brought in.
Then last week the FCO advised against all but essential travel to the Spanish Islands.  This means that our travel insurance would not cover us if we were to go abroad (for theft, accidents etc as well as for Covid).  We would not travel without insurance with two children - accidents do happen; nor would we travel against the advice which has been put in place for a reason.
I have spoken to Lastminute numerous times and they will not tell me how I can request a refund (under the Package Travel Regulations - these look to me as though they may provide some financial protection in our situation).  The agent said that I could not request a refund, only that I could request a cancellation.  If I cancel the holiday myself then I forfeit any right to a refund, so obviously I don't want to do this and I have made this very clear to them.   
We bought travel insurance in October through the Post Office, thinking that this would provide us with adequate cover as they are a reputable company.  It says that it will cover us in the event that the FCO advise against non-essential travel BUT in the general exclusions at the back of the policy book, it says that cover EXCLUDES pandemics.  So in effect, we have bought an insurance policy that won't pay out if we don't travel, and it won't pay out if we do.  It's useless.
I have complained to the CMA.  I have today registered a complaint with ABTA, but having read other people's experiences, I don't hold out any hope of them helping me. I have left a negative review on Trustpilot, but that isn't going to help me to achieve a refund, although it might make others think twice about booking a holiday with this shocking company.
Is there ANYTHING that we can do? Has anyone been successfully refunded in this situation, when the holiday company won't cancel the holiday and the flights and accommodation are still going ahead?  We are an honest, hard-working family who booked this holiday in good faith, well before anyone had ever heard of Covid-19.  We aren't chancers who thought we'd book something in the midst of the pandemic.  Please, please tell me if we have any chance of getting a refund from this atrocious company, and how we might go about doing it.  Thanks for reading.

Butts

Have you got an ATOL Cerificate ?
If so does it say Package Single Contract in the bottom right hand corner?
Then look at the top of this page and click on the Luxembourg "banner" that deals with your rights regarding FCO warnings.
It highlights all the different scenarios and if you are entitled to a refund.
Don't believe a word Last Minute say, check them out on Trustpilot .

mrsmb_2

Hi Butts,
Thanks for taking the time to reply. The ATOL Certificate sent at the time of booking states 'Package Single Contract' on the bottom right hand corner.  
Lastminute are dreadful and have given me so much inaccurate information when I have spoken to them. They have repeatedly encouraged me to cancel my booking, knowing full well that this would mean that I would no longer be entitled to a refund.  
I have read the Trustpilot reviews and there is also a Lastminute Victims group on Facebook, which has similar complaints (although nobody in quite the same situation with flights and hotel still going ahead).  I have also posted my negative review.
Thank you again, I will go and have a look at the Luxembourg info - thanks for pointing me in this direction.  

mrsmb_2

It's really unclear.  This is what it says for my situation:
***
With package holidays, under the Package Travel Regulations you SHOULD be able to get a refund within 14 days even if the trip's not been cancelled.  The rules state if "unavoidable and extraordinary circumstances" occur which "significantly affect the performance of the package", you're due a full refund if YOU cancel. And while they don't specifically state that an FCO warning would count as one of these circumstances – though they do give as an example "the outbreak of a serious disease at the travel destination" – in practice travel trade body ABTA says firms MUST refund you if the FCO warns against travel and you can't be given a holiday without "significant change".  So you should be able to get a full refund, but always check first with the firm before you cancel.
***
So, in theory, I meet the criteria.  BUT if I cancel, I forfeit my right to a refund.  Lastminute won't tell me how to request a refund.  I have checked with them and they say I am not entitled to a refund (but then they would say that, wouldn't they?)!  What happens in the event that the holiday company won't agree to a refund, where do I stand?

Butts

mrsmb_2 said:

Hi Butts,
Thanks for taking the time to reply. The ATOL Certificate sent at the time of booking states 'Package Single Contract' on the bottom right hand corner.  
Lastminute are dreadful and have given me so much inaccurate information when I have spoken to them. They have repeatedly encouraged me to cancel my booking, knowing full well that this would mean that I would no longer be entitled to a refund.  
I have read the Trustpilot reviews and there is also a Lastminute Victims group on Facebook, which has similar complaints (although nobody in quite the same situation with flights and hotel still going ahead).  I have also posted my negative review.
Thank you again, I will go and have a look at the Luxembourg info - thanks for pointing me in this direction.  

Well I was in a similar position to you having a trip booked departing on August 9th to Spain booked direct with BA.
The Flights are still operating and the Hotel Open.

I looked at the advice in relation to Cancellation with an FCO warning in place (in the Lux bit) and found the answer with The Package Travel Regulations "extraordinary circumstances / significant change" bit.

I rang BA yesterday and just mentioning the FCO warning was enough for him to offer to cancel with a full refund back onto my card in 7-10 days.

Ironically this was to replace a USA Holiday booked with LM.com that is due to depart on 8th August. Luckily I didn't pay the balance so only have £400 deposit owed to me by them.

My flights were cancelled weeks ago and I only found out thanks to BA - not them. I have  given them a further week to refund my deposit in full or I will go down the Chargeback route.

mrsmb_2

Thank you again. I am glad BA refunded your money and hope Lastminute refund your deposit sooner rather than later.
Unfortunately, Lastminute aren't cancelling any holidays, saying that they can all go ahead.  I have tried my hardest to speak to them quoting the Package Travel Regulations, being reasonable, being irate... it didn't make the slightest bit of difference.  I have also emailed them requesting a refund under the Package Travel Regulations and haven't got anywhere that way either. Who enforces the Package Travel Regulations? That seems to me to be the logical next step.

Butts

mrsmb_2 said:

Thank you again. I am glad BA refunded your money and hope Lastminute refund your deposit sooner rather than later.
Unfortunately, Lastminute aren't cancelling any holidays, saying that they can all go ahead.  I have tried my hardest to speak to them quoting the Package Travel Regulations, being reasonable, being irate... it didn't make the slightest bit of difference.  I have also emailed them requesting a refund under the Package Travel Regulations and haven't got anywhere that way either. Who enforces the Package Travel Regulations? That seems to me to be the logical next step.

If you look at the advice again it mentions that ABTA  endorse what it says about refunds in your circumstances - try them and contact your Credit Card Company.
Never book anything with Last Minute.com again - I know I won't.

mrsmb_2

I have submitted a complaint to ABTA this evening, so hopefully that might be upheld. However, others have said that all ABTA does is waste time in getting the refund processed as they don't uphold any claims that have been submitted.  
I have just scanned through their Terms and Conditions that were sent with the booking confirmation.  Is anyone able to unpick this (long!) section and tell me what it actually means? There is a reference to the FCO, but is is so wishy washy. Apologies for the length of the quote, I have included the whole section but highlighted the FCO bit in bold so you can find it easily:
13. OBLIGATIONS OF USERS
All passengers are required to check for any applicable travel updates affecting their package holiday by referring to the authorities in charge of providing information on the regulatory and administrative measures in force in their destination country. In the event that passengers fail to check this information, the Vendor and/or the Organiser will not be liable for the non-departure of the package holiday. Users will inform the Vendor and the Organiser about their nationality and, at the time of their departure, they will make sure that they hold the vaccination certificates, passports, visas and any other valid documentation required for all countries included in the package holiday, as well as any stay/transit visas and any health certificates which may be required.
In addition, in order to evaluate the health and safety conditions in the destination countries and therefore the User's likely actual enjoyment of the services purchased or to be purchased, the User is required to collect official information from the competent authorities of their own country, checking whether the authorities advise against travel to the destination countries included in the package. Users will also act in accordance with ordinary prudence and care standards and with the specific standards in force in the destination countries of the package holiday, with any information provided by the Organiser and with any regulations, administrative or statutory rules related to the package holiday. Users will be accountable for all damages caused by them to the Organiser and/or Vendor as a result of the User''s non-compliance with the obligations referred to in this section 14.
The User is required to provide the Organiser with all documents, information and data in his possession to enable the latter to exercise its right of subrogation vis-à-vis any third parties responsible for damages, and the User is accountable to the Organiser for any prejudice to this right.
The User shall duly provide all data required and necessary for the Website's booking and payment processes, and will give written notice to the Organiser, at the time of making their booking, of any personal requests they may have, which may be the object of specific agreements on travel conditions provided that these requests can be satisfied. The Foreign & Commonwealth Office have up-to-date advice on staying safe and healthy abroad. We recommend that you check the FCO Travel Aware website . For more on security, local laws and the latest travel information, visit the section 'Foreign travel advice' of the FCO Travel Aware website . The advice can change so check regularly for the latest information.
The User is at all times required to inform the Vendor and the Organiser of any special needs or conditions (pregnancy, food intolerances, disability, etc.), and to specify their requests for any corresponding personalized services. The Organiser does not guarantee that any special requests made by a User will be catered for by the relevant supplier(s) of the services.
Thanks so much, I really appreciate your advice.

Butts

mrsmb_2 said:

I have submitted a complaint to ABTA this evening, so hopefully that might be upheld. However, others have said that all ABTA does is waste time in getting the refund processed as they don't uphold any claims that have been submitted.  
I have just scanned through their Terms and Conditions that were sent with the booking confirmation.  Is anyone able to unpick this (long!) section and tell me what it actually means? There is a reference to the FCO, but is is so wishy washy. Apologies for the length of the quote, I have included the whole section but highlighted the FCO bit in bold so you can find it easily:
13. OBLIGATIONS OF USERS
All passengers are required to check for any applicable travel updates affecting their package holiday by referring to the authorities in charge of providing information on the regulatory and administrative measures in force in their destination country. In the event that passengers fail to check this information, the Vendor and/or the Organiser will not be liable for the non-departure of the package holiday. Users will inform the Vendor and the Organiser about their nationality and, at the time of their departure, they will make sure that they hold the vaccination certificates, passports, visas and any other valid documentation required for all countries included in the package holiday, as well as any stay/transit visas and any health certificates which may be required.
In addition, in order to evaluate the health and safety conditions in the destination countries and therefore the User's likely actual enjoyment of the services purchased or to be purchased, the User is required to collect official information from the competent authorities of their own country, checking whether the authorities advise against travel to the destination countries included in the package. Users will also act in accordance with ordinary prudence and care standards and with the specific standards in force in the destination countries of the package holiday, with any information provided by the Organiser and with any regulations, administrative or statutory rules related to the package holiday. Users will be accountable for all damages caused by them to the Organiser and/or Vendor as a result of the User''s non-compliance with the obligations referred to in this section 14.
The User is required to provide the Organiser with all documents, information and data in his possession to enable the latter to exercise its right of subrogation vis-à-vis any third parties responsible for damages, and the User is accountable to the Organiser for any prejudice to this right.
The User shall duly provide all data required and necessary for the Website's booking and payment processes, and will give written notice to the Organiser, at the time of making their booking, of any personal requests they may have, which may be the object of specific agreements on travel conditions provided that these requests can be satisfied. The Foreign & Commonwealth Office have up-to-date advice on staying safe and healthy abroad. We recommend that you check the FCO Travel Aware website . For more on security, local laws and the latest travel information, visit the section 'Foreign travel advice' of the FCO Travel Aware website . The advice can change so check regularly for the latest information.
The User is at all times required to inform the Vendor and the Organiser of any special needs or conditions (pregnancy, food intolerances, disability, etc.), and to specify their requests for any corresponding personalized services. The Organiser does not guarantee that any special requests made by a User will be catered for by the relevant supplier(s) of the services.
Thanks so much, I really appreciate your advice.

Go for your Credit Card as well !!

mrsmb_2

We can't start a Section 75 claim until the date of travel has passed, so I will do this as soon as the first flight has departed.

macman

Do a chargeback before you resort to an S75 claim. Much more chance of your card provider co-operating.