RICS survey missed major structural defect.

lyonsy28

I purchased my current home and managed to move in just before lock-down. During a visit from a local window / door company it was brought to my attention that an orangery extension built to the rear of the property may have a roof which is not adequately supported.   The orangery is constructed from UPVC windows built on top of a dwarf brick wall and the roof made up of interlocking concrete tiles. 
Prior to the purchase I paid for a Level 3 - full structural RICS survey which stated the orangery was 'well formed and well presented' and 'the overall condition of the orangery is acceptable with no structural deficiencies noted'. 
After 2 other salesmen came to quote and echoed the same concerns as the 1st I contacted the surveyors who arranged for the original surveyor to revisit. 
On the 2nd visit once the potential defects were pointed out to the surveyor who noted slight distortion particularly above the french doors and advised us to restrict use of the doors until further investigations had been completed and suggested he would arrange for a structural engineer to assess the specific issue but asked us to contact our solicitor to check all local authority documentation is in place, attempt to contact the original contractor to check for plans and consult with the building control department to check for records relating to the property.  
We have planing permission along with a policy of insurance schedule for the work carried out by the installers but seem to be missing completion certificate and FENSA however an indemnity insurance policy has been taken out in their absence.  I have also managed to make contact with the installers who have no records of the work which dates back to 2006 but they suspect the roof has been changed since its original install. 
The solicitor is adamant that all the paperwork is in place and its normal practise for missing certificates to be covered by an indemnity policy and the surveyor has missed the defect but the surveyor is now stating the distortion was not clearly evident at the time of the original inspection and our legal adviser should have checked all local authority consents and approvals were obtained. 
looking for advise on the best way to proceed. 

AdrianC

So in 2006, somebody built a conservatory. But they would have done so with a plastic roof.
Somewhen between now and then, the roof has been changed. Do we presume that the inside of the roof is finished, such that you can't see the structure supporting the roof tiles?

Obviously, your solicitor never visited the property, so had no way of knowing the conservatory as it is now is not the same as it was then.

When your surveyor re-visited, and had his attention specifically drawn to the conservatory, he noticed "slight distortion" to the top of the doors - which was "not clearly evident" last time.

Best way to proceed? Rip the ceiling down, and get the concrete roof tiles supported better.

davidmcn

lyonsy28 said:

the surveyor is now stating..our legal adviser should have checked all local authority consents and approvals were obtained.

That's hardly a defence - otherwise you wouldn't need to bother with a survey at all for structural issues, just check the consents exist! Paperwork is no proof that unauthorised works haven't been carried out since, and in any event you can't sue the council if they missed something.

kangoora

Has anyone ever had a surveyor say "Ok, fair do's, I missed it. Here's my insurance details and I'll let them know you have a valid claim"?

princeofpounds

kangoora said:

Has anyone ever had a surveyor say "Ok, fair do's, I missed it. Here's my insurance details and I'll let them know you have a valid claim"?

Ha nope, doesn't happen. The closest you seem to get is like in this case, where the surveyor does follow up e.g. with a structural engineer to establish the situation before going fully into their bunker.

Suggest you wait for that engineer's report. You may be lucky and it will be ok. If not, then it may be worth trying to reach a settlement with the surveyor to keep it out of insurance and legal disputes. For example, a refund of your fees may actually cover much of the cost of supporting the roof - hopefully.

With an extension constructed over a decade ago, for the deflection to have occurred in between Feb and now is a weak excuse and I'm sure the surveyor knows he missed it. 

They are human, but the profession doesn't cover itself in glory when it comes to dealing with liability.

AdrianC

princeofpounds said:

With an extension constructed over a decade ago

But we don't know when some idiot changed it from a lightweight, plastic conservatory roof to a heavy, concrete one.

lyonsy28

We do now strongly suspect the roof has been changed from the original plastic but there is no paper trail and none of the previous occupants have declared it. 
Not sure how we or the solicitor could have known this. 
Surely the surveyor should have at the very least raised concerns? 

AdrianC

lyonsy28 said:

We do now strongly suspect the roof has been changed from the original plastic but there is no paper trail and none of the previous occupants have declared it. 
Not sure how we or the solicitor could have known this. 
Surely the surveyor should have at the very least raised concerns? 

He can't rip the ceiling down in the conservatory to look at the roof structure, for fairly obvious reasons.

So all he can do is say what he sees - and he says he didn't see the "slight distortion" until the specific concern was pointed out.
Should he have looked more closely? Should he have raised his eyebrows at the very concept of a concrete roof on a tupperware conservatory?
He did advise to check that it was constructed to BR and signed-off appropriately...
Which it wasn't. Or, rather, the change of roof doesn't seem to have been...
Everybody simply assumed that the original sign-off included that roof...

It's entirely possible that, yes, he should have noticed it. But prove it... That isn't going to be quick or cheap. You'd be better-off putting the time/energy/money/blood-pressure into simply fixing the roof.

thearchitect

OP - what you need to do is look at the RICS Home Survey Standard, the latest version of which is dated 2019 but only came into effect in June 2020.  The previous version may therefore be more relevant to you.

Page 23, section A3, sets out the standards for a level three survey.  If the surveyor has not followed these guidelines then frame your complaint to them in these terms.  Identify the specific omission or error and ask for their response.

lincroft1710

As it is a possible defect on an outbuilding, it is not a major failing. If the orangery windows were starting to bow or there was difficulty in opening/closing any of the windows this would clearly signify a possible problem which should have been noted. The distortion may not have been present at the time of the original survey, as although something may be badly built, that doesn't mean it will immediately collapse.