Building extension and using neighbouring path - whether / how to get easement?

davidmcn

greatcrested said:

Just going ahead as suggested by the builders risks putting your neigbours' backs up. I know in their position I'd think "What a bl**dy liberty" and take action to stop you.

Whereas if you popped round with a nice home-made cake, chatted about your problem, I'd be more than likely to facilitate you provided I was not put to expense or losing out in any way.

It might need enough cake to satisfy the appetites of two leaseholders, a freeholder if that's a third party, and any mortgage lenders.

stouffah

greatcrested said:

Just going ahead as suggested by the builders risks putting your neigbours' backs up. I know in their position I'd think "What a bl**dy liberty" and take action to stop you.

Whereas if you popped round with a nice home-made cake, chatted about your problem, I'd be more than likely to facilitate you provided I was not put to expense or losing out in any way.

Exactly! The suggestion of just going ahead really confused me...

We could definitely go with the second option. It might be an issue if new neighbours moved in, but I suppose that if we already have a gate there they'd be more likely to accept it as part of the deal. I do wonder if it might create an issue if we were to try to sell, though- whether solicitors would query access rights. I'm not sure about that though- as I said, other houses seem to have the same access setup we're looking at, and it doesn't seem to have come up in the buying process.

Ozzuk

stouffah said:

greatcrested said:

Just going ahead as suggested by the builders risks putting your neigbours' backs up. I know in their position I'd think "What a bl**dy liberty" and take action to stop you.

Whereas if you popped round with a nice home-made cake, chatted about your problem, I'd be more than likely to facilitate you provided I was not put to expense or losing out in any way.

Exactly! The suggestion of just going ahead really confused me...

We could definitely go with the second option. It might be an issue if new neighbours moved in, but I suppose that if we already have a gate there they'd be more likely to accept it as part of the deal. I do wonder if it might create an issue if we were to try to sell, though- whether solicitors would query access rights. I'm not sure about that though- as I said, other houses seem to have the same access setup we're looking at, and it doesn't seem to have come up in the buying process.

It will come up in the buying process as its one of the questions asked in the sellers pack - along the lines of do you need to access any part of neighbours land for your access.  It's question 8.2.

stouffah

Ozzuk said:

It will come up in the buying process as its one of the questions asked in the sellers pack - along the lines of do you need to access any part of neighbours land for your access.  It's question 8.2.

Damn! Well, I can't really complain, it's something people need to know...
The previous owner of our house obviously answered 'no' to that- which is technically true, as long as you sidestep around the corner of the house and aren't carrying anything... We wouldn't get away with that with an extension, of course.

stouffah

davidmcn said:

It might need enough cake to satisfy the appetites of two leaseholders, a freeholder if that's a third party, and any mortgage lenders.

I was interpreting that just as getting permission on a casual day-by-day basis, nothing in writing- seems like that wouldn't necessarily be a problem until either new neighbours moved in or we tried to sell.

davidmcn

stouffah said:

davidmcn said:

It might need enough cake to satisfy the appetites of two leaseholders, a freeholder if that's a third party, and any mortgage lenders.

I was interpreting that just as getting permission on a casual day-by-day basis, nothing in writing- seems like that wouldn't necessarily be a problem until either new neighbours moved in or we tried to sell.

Yes, fair enough, just pointing out that sorting this kind of thing properly may well be more hassle/cost than occasionally carrying stuff through your house. It's pretty commonplace for back gardens not to have external access, I don't know how often it would be a dealbreaker for potential buyers.

theoretica

stouffah said:

So the question is how to get permission to use the path. We've spoken to a builder and two architects, who recommended simply going ahead and building the extension with a gate and using the path. This seems strange to me, though- we're on good terms with the neighbours and I think we'd be able to agree this, but there's no guarantee in the future if, say, new people move in and are unhappy with us using the path. I would think it would also affect the value of the house in future, if back garden access isn't guaranteed (is this something that solicitors might query?). I wondered if the builder and architects were keen on going ahead just because they wanted the job without complications....

They don't need to live with the consequences would be my thought too.

MalMonroe

Don't you need to find out who the landlord is and ask them?  

Also, do you have planning permission to carry out this weird project?

Tenants aren't allowed to give permission, only the owner, surely!  Tenants come and go, landlords may even want to move to live in their own property at sometime in the future.

A phone call to the council is necessary to find out who owns the property/properties, after which you can contact the landlord/s and ask permission properly (and get the answer in writing, of course). If nothing else, it's just common courtesy.

Going ahead without permission just means that you might have to dismantle everything in the future. And it's rude.

If it were me, I'd just move!

princeofpounds

Yeah if it's getting that difficult, you're better off moving. It's unlikely that you'll get next door's tenants, long leaseholders, freeholder and mortgage lender(s) all agreeing to give you access on a permanent, let alone temporary basis. Even if some of those people might be the same people in effect. 

But you can always ask.

stouffah

MalMonroe said:

Don't you need to find out who the landlord is and ask them?  

There's no landlord involved. Both flats are owned by leaseholders, so I think there's no problem with them giving casual permission (on the understanding that they could revoke at any time). I'm not sure the freeholder (a big property company based on the other side of the country) would know / care about an informal agreement to let us walk on the path, or have any right to a say in it (except possibly if we do it for 20 years and gain an implicit right to keep doing it...).

On the other hand, as others have mentioned, a formal legal easement would need to involve the freeholder, as well as the leaseholders and the mortgage lenders on both sides... and that's the only way of having any guarantee.