Needing advice on door catnic

Irar

I've got a front door that needs a catnic but there's a canopy thats built into the wall on each side.. would I need to take this out? Or try split on the joint and bolt though the catnic.. 

FreeBear

Why do you need a catnic ?

If it is just a case of fitting a lintel to the outer leaf, then you could get away with a simple (for the want of a better description) angle iron - Needed to fit one over a large window last year, and it was a simple folded length of steel to support the outer leaf. The inner leaf has a concrete beam in place.

Assuming the door is not going to be removed, you will need to take out the canopy so that the builder can cut out the soldier course and ~150mm each side of the opening. IF the door is coming out, there might be enough wriggle room to get away with removing a brick or two at the top. Your door frame would have to be replaced afterwards as you'll lose ~20mm of height unless the bricks are trimmed back. Not easy with the canopy in place...

Irar

The bricks are dropping in.. the only thing that's keeping them together is the silicone bead. There's a crack going up to the top window.. my problem is the canopy is built into the wall.. meaing I would need to remove it so the catnic can be fitted.. unless there's some other way.. which is what I was asking.. 

FreeBear

When my window was done last year, I was fortunate that by just removing a couple of bricks either side, there was just enough room to get the steel in. Luckily, the soldier course was solid and didn't need much in the way of support when the old frame was removed.

If your brickwork is already sagging, removing the door frame may result in the whole lot collapsing. I fear your only viable option is to remove the canopy, the soldier course, and maybe a couple of courses above.

Irar

You can see the soldier course in the picture.. the door frame won't be removed unless I'm putting in a frame with structural support built in.. the bits of the canopy can be removed to put acros in but the sides make it difficult to fit a catnic.. 

stuart45

Have you got a concrete lintel on the inner skin?

Irar

stuart45 said:

Have you got a concrete lintel on the inner skin?

Yes most likely.. had concrete on patio doors and kitchen window so should be the same but I've not checked.. the house is 1950s so it's got no lintels on outer skin.. was just held up by frames but when the new door was fitted they have left like a 15mm gap so bricks above dropped over time.. silicone bead is just holding them together. 

stuart45

That's the problem when the timber frames are replaced with plastic. 
I guess you were thinking about whipping out the soldiers and bolting an angle iron or L10 lintel to the concrete one and replacing the soldiers.
Problem with that is getting a decent joint on top of the soldiers.
Is it really hard to get the canopy down?

Irar

stuart45 said:

That's the problem when the timber frames are replaced with plastic. 
I guess you were thinking about whipping out the soldiers and bolting an angle iron or L10 lintel to the concrete one and replacing the soldiers.
Problem with that is getting a decent joint on top of the soldiers.
Is it really hard to get the canopy down?

Well the canopy is built in on each side of the door.. so the door is bolted into the canopy.. and if remove I would have to put back some how.. or tooth out bricks and built up...the front of the canopy I can remove to get acro in or get to bricks.. basically catnic can't site on bricks on each side of the opening without removing the arms of the canopy.. if you understand? Bolting to the inside skin isn't a bad idea.. that would probably work and be lots easier to do. 

FreeBear

Irar said: the house is 1950s so it's got no lintels on outer skin.. was just held up by frames but when the new door was fitted they have left like a 15mm gap so bricks above dropped over time..

How long ago was the door replaced ?

The Glass & Glazing Federation, FENSA, and other trade bodies have been advising that lintels should be checked and fitted if missing for a number of years. From GGF dated 2011 -

The necessity for lintels is dependent on the design of the structure, however even If no lintel is fitted above the existing aperture, the installation company is responsible for assessing if lintels should be installed because of potential movement in the brickwork. If required, a lintel should be installed. The installation company cannot avoid the issue on the grounds that because the original window did not have a lintel, then the replacement does not need one either. The installation company is responsible for advising whether or not lintels are required. A disclaimer issued by the customer is not an acceptable practice.

Maybe worth banging a few heads with who ever fitted the door and get them to rectify the problem.

Irar

FreeBear said:

Irar said: the house is 1950s so it's got no lintels on outer skin.. was just held up by frames but when the new door was fitted they have left like a 15mm gap so bricks above dropped over time..

How long ago was the door replaced ?

The Glass & Glazing Federation, FENSA, and other trade bodies have been advising that lintels should be checked and fitted if missing for a number of years. From GGF dated 2011 -

The necessity for lintels is dependent on the design of the structure, however even If no lintel is fitted above the existing aperture, the installation company is responsible for assessing if lintels should be installed because of potential movement in the brickwork. If required, a lintel should be installed. The installation company cannot avoid the issue on the grounds that because the original window did not have a lintel, then the replacement does not need one either. The installation company is responsible for advising whether or not lintels are required. A disclaimer issued by the customer is not an acceptable practice.

Maybe worth banging a few heads with who ever fitted the door and get them to rectify the problem.

The door was fitted before we bought the house.. surely something the surveyor should of picked up on but didn't. So no clue on who fitted the door.. it's not a major problem to fix anyway but could turn into one if it's left to get worse. I'm sure it would be okay if they had fitted the door tight upto the soldier course anyway.. but still not correct.