Estate Agents vs Landlord

[Deleted User]

princeofpounds said:

My previous reply was cross-posted so I wasn't aware that you hadn't actually signed the tenancy agreement yet. However, if you have it in writing that the LL will rent to you, and they accepted money from you, then you may still have a claim. Perhaps others will have input on that point.

I don't know why people accept not signing TAs until the last minute...

Surely all of the above was subject to signing a contract.

Debbie1988

Comms69 said:

Debbie1988 said:

Ok thank you. No contracts have been signed - i think thats where they are going to get us. Do you know the correct person to raise a complaint with? Do i do this via the Estate Agents? Is there anyone else we can complain to?
Citizens Advice advised we need to do this via the estate agents.
Thank you for your help!

No -one, no complaint to be made.

Really? Even with monies paid for the property and it in writing we had been accepted to rent the property?

Robbo66

brett19852010 said:

princeofpounds said:

My previous reply was cross-posted so I wasn't aware that you hadn't actually signed the tenancy agreement yet. However, if you have it in writing that the LL will rent to you, and they accepted money from you, then you may still have a claim. Perhaps others will have input on that point.

I don't know why people accept not signing TAs until the last minute...

Surely all of the above was subject to signing a contract.

Unless you have signed a tenancy agreement or a document that says contract which has also been signed by the landlord or their agent  which you say you haven't then no contract exists. You have no claim against the agent but you might be able to claim expenses via small claims from the landlord but this would be very hit and miss, probably more likely to be dismissed however.

grumiofoundation

Debbie1988 said:

Comms69 said:

Debbie1988 said:

Ok thank you. No contracts have been signed - i think thats where they are going to get us. Do you know the correct person to raise a complaint with? Do i do this via the Estate Agents? Is there anyone else we can complain to?
Citizens Advice advised we need to do this via the estate agents.
Thank you for your help!

No -one, no complaint to be made.

Really? Even with monies paid for the property and it in writing we had been accepted to rent the property?

Exactly what money was paid and for what? And what exactly was written to denote you had been accepted?

You do not need a written tenancy agreement in order for a tenancy to form - possibly paying the first months rent along with an 'agreement' to rent might be enough for a court to decide a tenancy had been agreed?? (hopefully people with more knowledge and experiencemwill be along to clarify/advise).  


P. S. Where in the country are you, england wales etc? This might impact upon answers.

grumiofoundation

Robbo66 said:

brett19852010 said:

princeofpounds said:

My previous reply was cross-posted so I wasn't aware that you hadn't actually signed the tenancy agreement yet. However, if you have it in writing that the LL will rent to you, and they accepted money from you, then you may still have a claim. Perhaps others will have input on that point.

I don't know why people accept not signing TAs until the last minute...

Surely all of the above was subject to signing a contract.

Unless you have signed a tenancy agreement or a document that says contract which has also been signed by the landlord or their agent  which you say you haven't then no contract exists. You have no claim against the agent but you might be able to claim expenses via small claims from the landlord but this would be very hit and miss, probably more likely to be dismissed however.

This (bolded) is not necessarily true - an tenancy can exist without a contract (whether it does in this case don't know???).

steampowered

I do not agree with posters who say that you have no case on the grounds that you hadn't signed a written agreement. That's not how the law works.

A legally binding contract can be formed orally or over email. If you have emails clearly demonstrating that a tenancy, the key terms of that tenancy and a move in date has all been agreed - that is probably enough to form a legally binding contract.

The fact that the agent had asked for and accepted the deposit is strong evidence that a contract had been formed. Do you think the agent would have refunded the deposit in full if asked to do so? If not, then there must have a contract in place.

Do you know the identity of the landlord? This will affect whether your contract was with the landlord or the agent.

I would be tempted to put in a "letter before action" seeking reimbursement of all costs incurred, and possibly to go ahead with filing a small claim.

princeofpounds

[Deleted User] said:

princeofpounds said:

My previous reply was cross-posted so I wasn't aware that you hadn't actually signed the tenancy agreement yet. However, if you have it in writing that the LL will rent to you, and they accepted money from you, then you may still have a claim. Perhaps others will have input on that point.

I don't know why people accept not signing TAs until the last minute...

Surely all of the above was subject to signing a contract.

Yes - the question is whether the 'have it in writing that the LL will rent' constitutes a contract or not. I suppose it depends what it says. Other people have come along with the view that it won't constitute a contract - possibly, maybe even probably, but I'm not sure how definitive we can be; there has been a lot of communication between the landlord's agent and the OP, including instructions on how to move money, when to move in etc. A court may or may not impute an intention to contract from that activity - that is what is important, not necessarily the existence of formal signed tenancy agreement.

But I'm only raising the possibility, not making an unequivocal statement. As a reminder, my first post was cross-posted, so I was under the impression they had signed a contract already.

Edit to add: steampowered has explained what I was trying to get across much more eloquently than I.

Debbie1988

It was confirmed via email with the estate agents on the 9th June stating "I have just got the go ahead with the Landlord, when would you like to move in'. We then had discussions about the move in date, handing the keys over and if we were able to decorate. Nothing was mentioned about signing a contract. 
We paid the bond, and pro rata'd rent from today to to the first September, when the rent would commence monthly afterwards.

I am based in the North East of England. 
Thank you so much for your help.

Comms69

steampowered said:

I do not agree with posters who say that you have no case on the grounds that you hadn't signed a written agreement. That's not how the law works.

A legally binding contract can be formed orally or over email. If you have emails clearly demonstrating that a tenancy, the key terms of that tenancy and a move in date has all been agreed - that is probably enough to form a legally binding contract.

The fact that the agent had asked for and accepted the deposit is strong evidence that a contract had been formed. Do you think the agent would have refunded the deposit in full if asked to do so? If not, then there must have a contract in place.

Do you know the identity of the landlord? This will affect whether your contract was with the landlord or the agent.

I would be tempted to put in a "letter before action" seeking reimbursement of all costs incurred, and possibly to go ahead with filing a small claim.

I'm going to disagree with your disagreement. That might be true if there was no written contract expected, but clearly one was anticipated. 

greatcrested

Debbie1988 said:

We have it in writing and everything was in place....

You have what in writing? This is the crux of the matter.

You have no signed tenancy agreemement, so what exactly do you have in writing? Please quote.

And as others have said, your issue is with the landlord. The agent is merely acting as the landlord's.... errr.... 'agent'!