consumer unit no RCD

Ectophile

Heedtheadvice said:

In general no for early installation. It just needed to meet the regs extant at the time.

However it is far better to have a modern safer unit, it might significantly reduce the risk of electrical shock and as a landlord you have a duty of care to your tenants. If all goes well, for a simple set of circuits you might just have a £400 cost to bring it up to date. (That depends upon location, charge rate and complexity etc. but do not estimate for less). The most significant risk to more work being required and the corresponding cost increase is if there are circuit/load problems that cause incompatibility with RCD requirements (amongst other things!).

As other posters have writ, get the report done first. That will tell you what actually needs to be done and what is advisable. It makes sense to know exactly where you stand and then you have time to plan and allocate funds. It makes sense too to carry out the advisory work at the same time both on cost grounds and peace of mind?

There's a new law for landlords in England https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/electrical-safety-standards-in-the-private-rented-sector-guidance-for-landlords-tenants-and-local-authorities/guide-for-landlords-electrical-safety-standards-in-the-private-rented-sector

This requires the electrics in any rented property to be tested against BS7671:2018 (18th Edition).

Anything that fails the inspection must be fixed.  Arguing that it complied when it was installed won't work for rental properties in England any more.

fenwick458

Ectophile said:

This requires the electrics in any rented property to be tested against BS7671:2018 (18th Edition).

Anything that fails the inspection must be fixed.  Arguing that it complied when it was installed won't work for rental properties in England any more.

anything that is a code 1 or 2 must be fixed yes. but anything that is a code 3 doesn't have to be done.
I don't think you really understand what you are saying, if you think every rental property in the country must be bang up to date with every rule and reg they bring out, there wouldn't be enough electricians in the country to do it, and you would need a new consumer unit every 5 years. 
if it met the standards when it was installed, then it's fine

Risteard

fenwick458 said:

if it met the standards when it was installed, then it's fine

Completely untrue. The statement is that an installation constructed to an earlier Edition "may not necessarily be unsafe or require upgrading". There is no definitive statement that it always will be safe and not require upgrading.

As an example fused neutrals were once permissible. They are now illegal - as in unlawful, prohibited and proscribed. Even if the installation complied at the time of consutruction they still remain illegal and outlawed. What the statement above actually means is that due consideration needs to be given to the non-compliance. It doesn't need to be corrected simply because it doesn't now comply - but it may need to be corrected because we now consider it to be unsafe, dangerous or hazardous (or potentially so).

Ectophile

fenwick458 said:

Ectophile said:

This requires the electrics in any rented property to be tested against BS7671:2018 (18th Edition).

Anything that fails the inspection must be fixed.  Arguing that it complied when it was installed won't work for rental properties in England any more.

anything that is a code 1 or 2 must be fixed yes. but anything that is a code 3 doesn't have to be done.
I don't think you really understand what you are saying, if you think every rental property in the country must be bang up to date with every rule and reg they bring out, there wouldn't be enough electricians in the country to do it, and you would need a new consumer unit every 5 years. 
if it met the standards when it was installed, then it's fine

I understand exactly what I am saying.  The new law requires an inspection against BS7671:2018.  No other edition is acceptable.  The government guidance is that C3 faults are acceptable.  Anything that earns a C1 or C2 is a fail and must be fixed.

There are things that were acceptable in older editions that would be a fail now.  For example, the use of a water pipe as the main earth was acceptable in the 13th Edition.  It's not allowed in the 18th Edition, and the NICEIC recommends a C2 code for it.

As the law is written, there is no requirement for the installation to be updated every 5 years, because the specific edition of BS7671 is stated in the law.  So if the IET/BSI bring out a new 19th Edition of the standard, then rental properties in England must still be tested against the 18th Edition unless the government updates the law.

alphason

Thanks for the advice and replies so far...

The reason I am not just doing the EICR first is that I don't want to get a  C1/C2 fail and have to do works within 28 days, the new regulations don't apply to existing tenancies until April 2021, I've has a lot of expenses lately and would prefer to do it later this or next year, I'm just planning ahead incase there is a change of tenant and I need to act quickly.

There does not seem to be a clear answer, I tried calling the government helpline for landlords but it says closed due to covid. I have spoken to a couple of different local electricians but I am still not clear. One said it would most likely be just an advisory the other said C2 fail. I was told if I changed the consumer unit the whole properties installation would be certified to a higher level and I would not need to do the EICR for 10 years, but I still think I need EICR to give with the tenancy agreement.

As the SupaSafe consumer unit was installed in April 96, when the property was built I am assuming it does meet 16th edition regulations so should have RCD. Pretty sure it does not have MCB but I haven't seen anything that says I must have MCB rather than fuses.

Risteard

alphason said:

I was told if I changed the consumer unit the whole properties installation would be certified to a higher level and I would not need to do the EICR for 10 years, but I still think I need EICR to give with the tenancy agreement.

That's not true. Only if it was a complete rewire would the EIC be acceptable as an alternative to an EICR. An EIC for a distribution board replacement certifies only the DB change - it does not and cannot certify the existing installation.

Also in a rented property you will not be given a recommendation of 10 years for the next inspection - it will be given a maximum of 5 years, and it could be less depending on the condition of the installation. I have issued some with the next inspection listed as 3 months and the like where the condition was poor.

Owain_Moneysaver

No RCD being a C3 (advisory) or C2 (action required) depends a bit on the electrician's professional opinion. 
If a socket may be used for an outdoors appliance, there is absence of supplementary bonding in the bathroom, or there is an electric shower, all point to C2. 
Without those circumstances (there may be other reasons) the electrician may be happy to certify as C3. 

https://www.electriciansforums.net/threads/eicr-and-rcds-is-it-a-c2-or-c3.172686/ and

https://professional-electrician.com/technical/napit-codebreakers-14/

However, I wouldn't be happy with no RCD, especially to sockets. And if there are rewireable fuses and one blows it's too tempting for a tenant to replace with a bit of paperclip (especially as many people now may not even know what fuse wire is) or you have a needless 'emergency' call out. 
Also note the new regulations apply to existing tenancies when they roll over from fixed term to periodic, which in many tenancies is after 6 months from the start of the tenancy and may be much earlier than April 2021. Depending on your tenancy dates, it may have already passed. 

alphason

Well looks like I got it completely wrong with what was installed! it looks as though it has RCD and MCB, (I was sure I remembered having to have replace a cartridge fuse replaced) not sure what the smaller switch is to the right though?
I know it needs looking at properly by an electrician but does it look likely the CU could pass the EICR? 

fenwick458

at a guess I'd say thats a split load consumer unit, only circuits 6,7 & 8 will have RCD protection. 
It could pass. examples I can think of that would make it fail are If the cooker outlet has a 13A socket on it, of it theres a class 1 light fitting or current using equipment in the bathrooms (mirrors with shaver sockets, lights, demister pads etc) 

sourpuss2021

Bumping this as I'm a tenant myself in a rental property that does not have RCD protection on the consumer unit.  Electrician who took a look wanted to add it for £250.   Landlord not convinced it's necessary.  Don't have EICR here yet either which is obviously wrong but I'm here for the long-term so need to work with landlord not against him.  

Found this to be a nuanced read about whether RCD protection is necessary anyway - and turns out it's not clear-cut:

https://www.electricblu.co.uk/do-landlords-need-to-fit-rcds-rental/