dental dam?

onwards&upwards

Kim_kim said:

brook2jack2 said:

You do know that masks are to protect other people from you , rather than to protect you and that they will be compulsory in shops in England soon? By asking a hairdresser to see you and you don't have to wear a mask you are asking them at a financially very difficult time to put their business ahead of protecting their health and their other customers health, and all for a haircut.

Many people wear a mask all day with no problems at all and if you start acclimatising yourself now by wearing one for a minute at a time and then building up , you should be able to tolerate one pretty quickly rather than dismissing wearing it out of hand . You will then be doing your bit to protect other people the way you would expect to be protected yourself. 

Many people believe that wearing a mask cuts down on oxygen , which is a total myth see this https://youtu.be/vy7DlcCUBrk

I wouldn’t go to a hairdresser that was prepared to take risks with covid. 

People who are practice risky behaviour are why this virus is still dangerous for us months on.  

The hairdresser probably assumed that 'I don't wear masks' meant that money seeker had a legitimate reason for an exemption.  Considering that the exemptions include severe respiratory illness and mental health illness, it would be very harsh for these people to be refused all kinds of personal services for god knows how long until we have a vaccine. 

This particular poster might just be bloody minded (although having read a number of their threads now I'm not actually convinced there isn't a mental health condition/ASD/personality disorder at play) but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have compassion for all the people out there who are finding mask wearing etc. impossible, painful or traumatising. 

brook2jack2

onwards&upwards said:

brook2jack2 said:

However in covid times because rubberdam cuts the aerosol down by over 95% so making it safer for staff and just as importantly the next patient in the surgery (after an hours fallow time and disinfection ) , and anyone coming in contact with the patient after the procedure as much,much less aerosol is created , in our practice we would refuse treatment. Our operating procedures are laid down by the chief dental officers and to provide aerosol treatment we must abide by this , and to protect other staff and patients , as well as myself even if I were not compelled I would make this part of my conditions of treatment as the scientific evidence for protection is overwhelming along with the improvement in outcome for the patient. 

Very sad that people with PTSD due to sexual assault will very likely lose their access to dental care now. 

Every time a dentist does treatment on a patient, but particularly in covid times, they have to risk benefit assess. 

Dental aerosols are seen as very high risk , not only to the dental staff (and by default their families) but also to any other patients who also use the practice. 

Every dentist will have , in the past, adapted their procedures for nervous /traumatised patients for those with dementia /learning difficulties etc . 

However as rubber dam , on its own, reduces aerosol by 95% I personally would not be happy to expose all involved to risk  . During lockdown where treatment had to be carried out I did so with minimal staff to decrease their (And their families) exposure and at the end of a day or session to give enough time to decontaminate , this was for extreme emergencies. Now , in order to see a patient , we have to have a clean nurse in surgery , a nurse as a runner, decontamination , and reception staff . We also have more patients (distanced) coming through the practice , albeit many fewer than in normal times. All these people are potentially at risk if we do not maintain highest standards of cross infection control . Dentists have always had excellent controls , possibly better than most other areas of healthcare , now we have to go several steps beyond.

Now , for "routine treatment" unless a dentist can perform under optimal cross infection reduction conditions which means , amongst other things rubber dam , then treatment should be deferred. This also applies to people who want to come in not wearing masks, who don't want to use hand sanitiser, who want to bring children in with them who are not having treatment , who want to bring bags into the surgery etc etc . 

Gers

I've just had an APG treatment with two more coming up soon.  The use of dental dam was reassuring, not only for the dentist and his nurse but for me too.  It wasn't a huge piece of plastic, it wasn't scary and it wasn't intimidating - what it was was weird! However, it worked.  It helped keep everyone safe.

onwards&upwards

brook2jack2 said:

onwards&upwards said:

brook2jack2 said:

However in covid times because rubberdam cuts the aerosol down by over 95% so making it safer for staff and just as importantly the next patient in the surgery (after an hours fallow time and disinfection ) , and anyone coming in contact with the patient after the procedure as much,much less aerosol is created , in our practice we would refuse treatment. Our operating procedures are laid down by the chief dental officers and to provide aerosol treatment we must abide by this , and to protect other staff and patients , as well as myself even if I were not compelled I would make this part of my conditions of treatment as the scientific evidence for protection is overwhelming along with the improvement in outcome for the patient. 

Very sad that people with PTSD due to sexual assault will very likely lose their access to dental care now. 

Every time a dentist does treatment on a patient, but particularly in covid times, they have to risk benefit assess. 

Dental aerosols are seen as very high risk , not only to the dental staff (and by default their families) but also to any other patients who also use the practice. 

Every dentist will have , in the past, adapted their procedures for nervous /traumatised patients for those with dementia /learning difficulties etc . 

However as rubber dam , on its own, reduces aerosol by 95% I personally would not be happy to expose all involved to risk  . During lockdown where treatment had to be carried out I did so with minimal staff to decrease their (And their families) exposure and at the end of a day or session to give enough time to decontaminate , this was for extreme emergencies. Now , in order to see a patient , we have to have a clean nurse in surgery , a nurse as a runner, decontamination , and reception staff . We also have more patients (distanced) coming through the practice , albeit many fewer than in normal times. All these people are potentially at risk if we do not maintain highest standards of cross infection control . Dentists have always had excellent controls , possibly better than most other areas of healthcare , now we have to go several steps beyond.

Now , for "routine treatment" unless a dentist can perform under optimal cross infection reduction conditions which means , amongst other things rubber dam , then treatment should be deferred. This also applies to people who want to come in not wearing masks, who don't want to use hand sanitiser, who want to bring children in with them who are not having treatment , who want to bring bags into the surgery etc etc . 

None of that makes what I said untrue, does it?  

Undervalued

onwards&upwards said:

Kim_kim said:

brook2jack2 said:

You do know that masks are to protect other people from you , rather than to protect you and that they will be compulsory in shops in England soon? By asking a hairdresser to see you and you don't have to wear a mask you are asking them at a financially very difficult time to put their business ahead of protecting their health and their other customers health, and all for a haircut.

Many people wear a mask all day with no problems at all and if you start acclimatising yourself now by wearing one for a minute at a time and then building up , you should be able to tolerate one pretty quickly rather than dismissing wearing it out of hand . You will then be doing your bit to protect other people the way you would expect to be protected yourself. 

Many people believe that wearing a mask cuts down on oxygen , which is a total myth see this https://youtu.be/vy7DlcCUBrk

I wouldn’t go to a hairdresser that was prepared to take risks with covid. 

People who are practice risky behaviour are why this virus is still dangerous for us months on.  

The hairdresser probably assumed that 'I don't wear masks' meant that money seeker had a legitimate reason for an exemption.  Considering that the exemptions include severe respiratory illness and mental health illness, it would be very harsh for these people to be refused all kinds of personal services for god knows how long until we have a vaccine. 

This particular poster might just be bloody minded (although having read a number of their threads now I'm not actually convinced there isn't a mental health condition/ASD/personality disorder at play) but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have compassion for all the people out there who are finding mask wearing etc. impossible, painful or traumatising. 

None of that makes what I said untrue, does it?

Yes but equally it is very "harsh" to expose the service provider (and by extension their family and other necessary contacts) to unnecessary risk when it is not essential. Sadly for every person that genuinely cannot tolerate a dental dam or whatever for genuine medical reasons, there will be rather more who simply choose not to or refuse to make an effort with something they find a bit unpleasant. As with most things they make it far more difficult for those with a genuine need.

thepurplepixie

onwards&upwards said:

pramsay13 said:

If you feel strange about things being put in your mouth you should maybe be asking before booking if there are any changes to normal procedures during this time.

To be fair to the OP, no medical professional should ever start a procedure or introduce a device into a person's body without getting their consent and ensuring they understand what the item is for and why it is needed. 

No matter how useful or important the device is, you don't just do it without warning!  Same goes for injections, blood tests, thermometers, catheters or anything else! 

It is hardly a surprise that dentists need to put instruments in your mouth though.  Do you want a run down at the start of every treatment, I'm going to ask you to open your mouth, I'll use this to move your tongue so I can see, I'll use this little mirror so I can see the back of your teeth, this irrigator will wash anything away, this suction thing will take the water away, I'll use this drill etc etc  etc.  I expect to sit back, open my mouth and the professionally qualified dentist will use his instruments.  Now if he/she is going to do a filling, pull a tooth, crown a tooth I do expect that to be discussed but every instrument? No.

(Apologies that I don't know the correct terminology for dental equipment but I'm sure you get the drift.)

onwards&upwards

Undervalued said:

onwards&upwards said:

Kim_kim said:

brook2jack2 said:

You do know that masks are to protect other people from you , rather than to protect you and that they will be compulsory in shops in England soon? By asking a hairdresser to see you and you don't have to wear a mask you are asking them at a financially very difficult time to put their business ahead of protecting their health and their other customers health, and all for a haircut.

Many people wear a mask all day with no problems at all and if you start acclimatising yourself now by wearing one for a minute at a time and then building up , you should be able to tolerate one pretty quickly rather than dismissing wearing it out of hand . You will then be doing your bit to protect other people the way you would expect to be protected yourself. 

Many people believe that wearing a mask cuts down on oxygen , which is a total myth see this https://youtu.be/vy7DlcCUBrk

I wouldn’t go to a hairdresser that was prepared to take risks with covid. 

People who are practice risky behaviour are why this virus is still dangerous for us months on.  

The hairdresser probably assumed that 'I don't wear masks' meant that money seeker had a legitimate reason for an exemption.  Considering that the exemptions include severe respiratory illness and mental health illness, it would be very harsh for these people to be refused all kinds of personal services for god knows how long until we have a vaccine. 

This particular poster might just be bloody minded (although having read a number of their threads now I'm not actually convinced there isn't a mental health condition/ASD/personality disorder at play) but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have compassion for all the people out there who are finding mask wearing etc. impossible, painful or traumatising. 

None of that makes what I said untrue, does it?

Yes but equally it is very "harsh" to expose the service provider (and by extension their family and other necessary contacts) to unnecessary risk when it is not essential. Sadly for every person that genuinely cannot tolerate a dental dam or whatever for genuine medical reasons, there will be rather more who simply choose not to or refuse to make an effort with something they find a bit unpleasant. As with most things they make it far more difficult for those with a genuine need.

I’m afraid that a risk of exposure to infectious diseases comes with the job for healthcare professionals.  It doesn’t exempt them from their duty of care to their patients. 

thepurplepixie

onwards&upwards said:

Undervalued said:

onwards&upwards said:

Kim_kim said:

brook2jack2 said:

You do know that masks are to protect other people from you , rather than to protect you and that they will be compulsory in shops in England soon? By asking a hairdresser to see you and you don't have to wear a mask you are asking them at a financially very difficult time to put their business ahead of protecting their health and their other customers health, and all for a haircut.

Many people wear a mask all day with no problems at all and if you start acclimatising yourself now by wearing one for a minute at a time and then building up , you should be able to tolerate one pretty quickly rather than dismissing wearing it out of hand . You will then be doing your bit to protect other people the way you would expect to be protected yourself. 

Many people believe that wearing a mask cuts down on oxygen , which is a total myth see this https://youtu.be/vy7DlcCUBrk

I wouldn’t go to a hairdresser that was prepared to take risks with covid. 

People who are practice risky behaviour are why this virus is still dangerous for us months on.  

The hairdresser probably assumed that 'I don't wear masks' meant that money seeker had a legitimate reason for an exemption.  Considering that the exemptions include severe respiratory illness and mental health illness, it would be very harsh for these people to be refused all kinds of personal services for god knows how long until we have a vaccine. 

This particular poster might just be bloody minded (although having read a number of their threads now I'm not actually convinced there isn't a mental health condition/ASD/personality disorder at play) but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have compassion for all the people out there who are finding mask wearing etc. impossible, painful or traumatising. 

None of that makes what I said untrue, does it?

Yes but equally it is very "harsh" to expose the service provider (and by extension their family and other necessary contacts) to unnecessary risk when it is not essential. Sadly for every person that genuinely cannot tolerate a dental dam or whatever for genuine medical reasons, there will be rather more who simply choose not to or refuse to make an effort with something they find a bit unpleasant. As with most things they make it far more difficult for those with a genuine need.

I’m afraid that a risk of exposure to infectious diseases comes with the job for healthcare professionals.  It doesn’t exempt them from their duty of care to their patients. 

That doesn't mean they aren't entitled to protection and patients also need to play their part, you can't just demand people put themselves at unnecessary risk.

Undervalued

onwards&upwards said:

Undervalued said:

onwards&upwards said:

Kim_kim said:

brook2jack2 said:

You do know that masks are to protect other people from you , rather than to protect you and that they will be compulsory in shops in England soon? By asking a hairdresser to see you and you don't have to wear a mask you are asking them at a financially very difficult time to put their business ahead of protecting their health and their other customers health, and all for a haircut.

Many people wear a mask all day with no problems at all and if you start acclimatising yourself now by wearing one for a minute at a time and then building up , you should be able to tolerate one pretty quickly rather than dismissing wearing it out of hand . You will then be doing your bit to protect other people the way you would expect to be protected yourself. 

Many people believe that wearing a mask cuts down on oxygen , which is a total myth see this https://youtu.be/vy7DlcCUBrk

I wouldn’t go to a hairdresser that was prepared to take risks with covid. 

People who are practice risky behaviour are why this virus is still dangerous for us months on.  

The hairdresser probably assumed that 'I don't wear masks' meant that money seeker had a legitimate reason for an exemption.  Considering that the exemptions include severe respiratory illness and mental health illness, it would be very harsh for these people to be refused all kinds of personal services for god knows how long until we have a vaccine. 

This particular poster might just be bloody minded (although having read a number of their threads now I'm not actually convinced there isn't a mental health condition/ASD/personality disorder at play) but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have compassion for all the people out there who are finding mask wearing etc. impossible, painful or traumatising. 

None of that makes what I said untrue, does it?

Yes but equally it is very "harsh" to expose the service provider (and by extension their family and other necessary contacts) to unnecessary risk when it is not essential. Sadly for every person that genuinely cannot tolerate a dental dam or whatever for genuine medical reasons, there will be rather more who simply choose not to or refuse to make an effort with something they find a bit unpleasant. As with most things they make it far more difficult for those with a genuine need.

I’m afraid that a risk of exposure to infectious diseases comes with the job for healthcare professionals.  It doesn’t exempt them from their duty of care to their patients. 

They also have a duty of care to themselves (and by extension their family and friends) and also to their staff and to other patients.

A dentist (certainly one working privately) is quite entitled to refuse to carry out a treatment and indeed has a duty to do so if they feel it cannot be carried out safely for all involved. They are under no obligation to see the patient again.

On the NHS it is slightly more complicated as, having once seen a patient, they are obliged to complete any medically necessary treatment. Once that is done they are under no obligation to see the patient ever again. Even then they are free to refuse to undertake anything they feel is beyond their expertise or for which they lack the necessary equipment.

onwards&upwards

thepurplepixie said:

onwards&upwards said:

Undervalued said:

onwards&upwards said:

Kim_kim said:

brook2jack2 said:

You do know that masks are to protect other people from you , rather than to protect you and that they will be compulsory in shops in England soon? By asking a hairdresser to see you and you don't have to wear a mask you are asking them at a financially very difficult time to put their business ahead of protecting their health and their other customers health, and all for a haircut.

Many people wear a mask all day with no problems at all and if you start acclimatising yourself now by wearing one for a minute at a time and then building up , you should be able to tolerate one pretty quickly rather than dismissing wearing it out of hand . You will then be doing your bit to protect other people the way you would expect to be protected yourself. 

Many people believe that wearing a mask cuts down on oxygen , which is a total myth see this https://youtu.be/vy7DlcCUBrk

I wouldn’t go to a hairdresser that was prepared to take risks with covid. 

People who are practice risky behaviour are why this virus is still dangerous for us months on.  

The hairdresser probably assumed that 'I don't wear masks' meant that money seeker had a legitimate reason for an exemption.  Considering that the exemptions include severe respiratory illness and mental health illness, it would be very harsh for these people to be refused all kinds of personal services for god knows how long until we have a vaccine. 

This particular poster might just be bloody minded (although having read a number of their threads now I'm not actually convinced there isn't a mental health condition/ASD/personality disorder at play) but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have compassion for all the people out there who are finding mask wearing etc. impossible, painful or traumatising. 

None of that makes what I said untrue, does it?

Yes but equally it is very "harsh" to expose the service provider (and by extension their family and other necessary contacts) to unnecessary risk when it is not essential. Sadly for every person that genuinely cannot tolerate a dental dam or whatever for genuine medical reasons, there will be rather more who simply choose not to or refuse to make an effort with something they find a bit unpleasant. As with most things they make it far more difficult for those with a genuine need.

I’m afraid that a risk of exposure to infectious diseases comes with the job for healthcare professionals.  It doesn’t exempt them from their duty of care to their patients. 

That doesn't mean they aren't entitled to protection and patients also need to play their part, you can't just demand people put themselves at unnecessary risk.

It’s not unnecessary risk, dental and mouth care is an absolutely vital part of health care, no less important than looking after any other part of the body.  

If a rape survivor, or a person with autism, cannot wear a ‘dental dam’ without suffering extreme distress, panic attacks or flashbacks, then it is not acceptable that as a result of circumstances beyond their control they don’t get any dental care for the foreseeable future.  

A doctor or a nurse wouldn’t refuse them essential care, they would put on their PPE, take whatever other precautions they could and then get on with it because that is the job.