Get off the phones

IvanOpinion

Pollycat said:

Two wrongs do not make one right.

Personally, I would say that companies should be the first to keep their information up to date and then expect their customers to check that information before ringing.

If they don't do that, it's little wonder that customers are aggrieved when they ring up to ask where their next day delivery is only to be told 'oh, that's old information. We've just not updated our website. Deliveries now take a week'.

You actually raise an interesting point. It may not be the relevant company that is at fault, they may still (as far as they are aware) offer next day delivery, it is just that the delivery companies may also be struggling to cope.

No matter where the problem lies, and no matter how frustrated you are, that does not give anyone any right to be abusive to someone at the other end of the phone.

Being a little more understanding and patient may also make you think, 'we are in strange times, I will give that order a couple of extra days before phoning' (something I have said to my own wife on multiple occasions when she has got concerned about orders that did not arrive as quickly as they should). Also better for your blood pressure.

Pollycat

IvanOpinion said:

You actually raise an interesting point. It may not be the relevant company that is at fault, they may still (as far as they are aware) offer next day delivery, it is just that the delivery companies may also be struggling to cope.

No matter where the problem lies, and no matter how frustrated you are, that does not give anyone any right to be abusive to someone at the other end of the phone.

Being a little more understanding and patient may also make you think, 'we are in strange times, I will give that order a couple of extra days before phoning' (something I have said to my own wife on multiple occasions when she has got concerned about orders that did not arrive as quickly as they should). Also better for your blood pressure.

The company will have a contract with the delivery company.

If there is any issue with the delivery company not being able to fulfil that contract, they should discuss that with the supplying company - who should then amend their website with revised delivery information so that the end customer knows what timescales to expect.

The customer has a contract with the supplier.

The supplier should be upfront with their customer and proactively manage their customers' expectations, regardless of what difficult times we are living through.

I agree that nobody should be abusive to anyone one the phone.

But companies will bear the brunt of customers' anger if their website is misleading.

As for patience and understanding, it may be that a customer chose that particular company because of the delivery timescales in their T&Cs.

I can easily understand a customer being angry to find out that their next day delivery that they desperately need is actually going to take a week to arrive.

Maybe companies should show a little understanding about the impact of misleading customers - be it deliberate or not.

IvanOpinion

Pollycat said:

IvanOpinion said:

You actually raise an interesting point. It may not be the relevant company that is at fault, they may still (as far as they are aware) offer next day delivery, it is just that the delivery companies may also be struggling to cope.

No matter where the problem lies, and no matter how frustrated you are, that does not give anyone any right to be abusive to someone at the other end of the phone.

Being a little more understanding and patient may also make you think, 'we are in strange times, I will give that order a couple of extra days before phoning' (something I have said to my own wife on multiple occasions when she has got concerned about orders that did not arrive as quickly as they should). Also better for your blood pressure.

The company will have a contract with the delivery company.

If there is any issue with the delivery company not being able to fulfil that contract, they should discuss that with the supplying company - who should then amend their website with revised delivery information so that the end customer knows what timescales to expect.

The customer has a contract with the supplier.

The supplier should be upfront with their customer and proactively manage their customers' expectations, regardless of what difficult times we are living through.

I agree that nobody should be abusive to anyone one the phone.

But companies will bear the brunt of customers' anger if their website is misleading.

As for patience and understanding, it may be that a customer chose that particular company because of the delivery timescales in their T&Cs.

I can easily understand a customer being angry to find out that their next day delivery that they desperately need is actually going to take a week to arrive.

Maybe companies should show a little understanding about the impact of misleading customers - be it deliberate or not.

There is not a lot that I disagree with you on, but we have to draw away from an ideal world that you and I would like and the stark reality that we are currently in. I think parts of many contracts will now be out the window and 'Force Majeur' clauses kicking into effect - with companies using 'best endeavours' to continue operations.  Out of interest (nothing to do with me) I asked one of the dev leads if certain areas of sites they maintain have been updated - I was pretty much told that if I had time to do it then I should fill my boots (it appears that they simply follow direction from their clients - so if they have asked then yes, if not then no).

Many aspects of the supply chain are stretched to breaking point.  I know from my own job that many of our systems were never designed to be operated the way we are currently using them - as one of my technicians said 'it is like putting a Fiesta engine in an F1 car and telling everyone about it - to the untrained eye it looks the same, yet some people will still be surprised that it is not competitive'.

Generally speaking, overall, I think business has coped pretty well with this pandemic.  But then I have always been a half-full kind of guy.

mattyprice4004

I'm sorry, but to reply any further I'm going to need the names of the dogs  

I found the same issue when I worked for call centres - if we had a central issue we were dealing with, customers would spend 1 minute listening to the problem being explained and how we were going to fix it but then 10 minutes ranting (which solves nothing) while other people are sat in the queue. 

Incredibly selfish - ranting won't fix it, I know you're annoyed now please hang up so I can let the next person know the timescale for the fix, and that we're aware of the problem. 

Pollycat

IvanOpinion said:

There is not a lot that I disagree with you on, but we have to draw away from an ideal world that you and I would like and the stark reality that we are currently in. I think parts of many contracts will now be out the window and 'Force Majeur' clauses kicking into effect - with companies using 'best endeavours' to continue operations.  Out of interest (nothing to do with me) I asked one of the dev leads if certain areas of sites they maintain have been updated - I was pretty much told that if I had time to do it then I should fill my boots (it appears that they simply follow direction from their clients - so if they have asked then yes, if not then no).

Many aspects of the supply chain are stretched to breaking point.  I know from my own job that many of our systems were never designed to be operated the way we are currently using them - as one of my technicians said 'it is like putting a Fiesta engine in an F1 car and telling everyone about it - to the untrained eye it looks the same, yet some people will still be surprised that it is not competitive'.

Generally speaking, overall, I think business has coped pretty well with this pandemic.  But then I have always been a half-full kind of guy.

Then make sure you are not misleading your customers by showing delivery timescales that you know you are unable to meet.

Is it really that hard to do?

I've had quite a few deliveries since mid March.

If things haven't turned up on time I've been patient and waited a few more days.

I had a parcel from Trespass that took Parcelforce over 2 weeks to deliver - despite what it said on Trespass website. It was stuck in one place for days and days.

To say you are going to deliver in 'x' days when you know that is simply not possible is wrong.

IvanOpinion

Pollycat said:

Then make sure you are not misleading your customers by showing delivery timescales that you know you are unable to meet.

Is it really that hard to do?

We seem to be going around in circles now.
It isn't deliberate and it isn't personal.  The seller may not know what delivery times their carriers can meet.  Maybe 8 times out of 10 the delivery times are met, but on 2 they aren't (and boy do we hear about those 2).  The majority of orders I have placed since March have been overdue (and even before it was about 50/50).

In answer to your last point.  In some cases it may be hard to do - I can;t speak for anyone but I can think of multiple reasons that may put a spanner in the works. As I said earlier as well, is it that hard for people to read the 'covid message' providing the most up to date information?

Pollycat said:

I've had quite a few deliveries since mid March.

If things haven't turned up on time I've been patient and waited a few more days.

Good - that was all my original post was suggesting.  A little but more patience.

Pollycat said:

I had a parcel from Trespass that took Parcelforce over 2 weeks to deliver - despite what it said on Trespass website. It was stuck in one place for days and days.

To say you are going to deliver in 'x' days when you know that is simply not possible is wrong.

Do you know whose fault that was?  Was it Trespass or the delivery firm?  Was it Trespass being slow to fulfil?  Stuck in a Trespass warehouse awaiting collection? Stuck in a delivery depot awaiting direction to the next hub?  Stuck in the final hub awaiting delivery?  There are many points of failure and maybe Trespass were just as frustrated as you.

As I said earlier there is expectations and there is reality?

BooJewels

I fully appreciate that the current situation is extremely unusual and companies have had to rapidly re-design their procedures, I've variously spoken to bank and pension company type people in their kitchens, gardens and spare bedrooms.  But I think that in itself raises other issues - I'm not sure that everyone is as fully focussed and in work mode, as they would ordinarily be in an office.  I spoke to a finance company chap yesterday and could hear his children playing.

My father passed away and I'm having to deal with closing things down and have tried to do as many tasks myself as possible, to save these over-stretched people some of the tasks - like paying for the funeral, debts and transferring all DDs before closing his bank account.  There are several instances now where the person I dealt with simply did not do what they were supposed to, said they would, or actually read the email or letter they were responding to.  Necessitating me needing to call to sort out something that had gone awry.  Resulting in wasting theirs and my time, on something avoidable.  Especially when I've deliberately tried to work in a manner to minimise such inconveniences.  

So whilst I can understand that times are difficult and complicated for everyone, I wonder if working on important finance matters at your kitchen table, when your toddler suddenly falls and scapes a knee or something isn't interrupting thought processes and leading to mistakes that wouldn't me made in your office.  Understandable, but I think it is becoming a factor too.  Things are very different and difficult for all parties.

NBLondon

I see what Ivan is getting at - and I mostly agree with Polly.
Some customers simply will not bother to read what's on a website; some will read it and then ring up hoping to get a different answer or to shout that they are special.  Reasonable people will try and find an online answer - or use online chat or e-mail.  But if the online info isn't as accurate as can be - they may be pushed into phoning.

Example 1:   While in lockdown, I had a fairly simple request of a bank.  Website says I can do it online - but that page didn't work.  Online chat says "you'll have to phone or go in to branch".  Phone line cuts off to a recorded message saying "try online".    Not crucial since I used a different account in the end but this was a major bank named after a Yorkshire town that has TV ads saying how they are all helping us from home.

Example 2:  I needed to buy a new office chair (for working at home).  Found a suitable one from a company that also has lots of TV ads.  Black out of stock, Grey available for delivery in 48 hours.  Ordered on Sunday, acknowledgement for delivery on Tuesday.  On Monday, they e-mail to say Grey now out of stock and do I want to wait until October or cancel?  I cancelled.  Looked back at their website for my second choice and find that the Black version that was out of stock is now available again.  Re-ordered it for delivery the week after.   I didn't even bother to try phoning...  But it would have been nice to a) have accurate stock info when ordering and  b) have the choice to change the order rather than cancel and re-buy 10 minutes later.

Pollycat

IvanOpinion said:

We seem to be going around in circles now.
It isn't deliberate and it isn't personal.  The seller may not know what delivery times their carriers can meet.  Maybe 8 times out of 10 the delivery times are met, but on 2 they aren't (and boy do we hear about those 2).  The majority of orders I have placed since March have been overdue (and even before it was about 50/50).

In answer to your last point.  In some cases it may be hard to do - I can;t speak for anyone but I can think of multiple reasons that may put a spanner in the works. As I said earlier as well, is it that hard for people to read the 'covid message' providing the most up to date information?

I think we're going round in circles because you cannot or will not accept that companies are possibly to blame for inaccurate information on websites.

The seller SHOULD make themselves aware of what delivery timescales their carriers can meet.

They have a contract with the end customer and fulfilment of that contract depends on their sub-contractors.

If it's easy to put on a covid message, why is it too hard to amend delivery timescales?

Or surely revised delivery timescales should be included in the covid message?

IvanOpinion said:

Good - that was all my original post was suggesting.  A little but more patience.

But companies need to ensure customers are aware of timescales (yes, we are going round in circles)

IvanOpinion said:
Do you know whose fault that was?  Was it Trespass or the delivery firm?  Was it Trespass being slow to fulfil?  Stuck in a Trespass warehouse awaiting collection? Stuck in a delivery depot awaiting direction to the next hub?  Stuck in the final hub awaiting delivery?  There are many points of failure and maybe Trespass were just as frustrated as you.

It was a delay within Parcelforce - as I said in my earlier post.

I tracked it on the Parcelforce website a day after I placed the order.

I don't know exactly where the delay was (I don't see why that matters).

The point of failure was not the fault of the company I placed the order with.

The point of failure was with the carrier. i.e. the contract between the supplier and carrier.

Although if I had decided to complain (I didn't, the package was not that urgent) it would have been to the supplier who would have had to resolve it with their carrier.

IvanOpinion said:

As I said earlier there is expectations and there is reality?

Then clearly set the customers' expectations and they'll almost certainly accept reality.

BooJewels

I think that's a very important factor @Pollycat - managing expectations.

I've put a notice on my own web site about the current posting delays and potential delivery issues and can and do update it as required.  I also encourage customers to speak to me about specifics, in advance of ordering, which a few have done.  I haven't let down a single customer during this time - largely because reality has proved better than the estimates I gave, thankfully.

The finance company I dealt with yesterday are progressively adding more forms on their web site to allow you to order documents that you'd normally ring to request, like loan settlement amounts, statements etc. I used it myself to start the ball rolling.  They're clearly trying to move as many routine tasks to their web site as possible to free up the phones.  But that in itself requires an infrastructure and procedural change.