Furloughed staff holidays. Mandatory carry over to next year?

warby68

Retired_Minky said:

Thanks for the replies. Doesn't seem like I have any choice but to upset the employee and force them to take the holiday.
Is there a particular format I need to do the notice informing them they must take the holiday? 

Yes its called a P45 (sorry, couldn't resist )

bradders1983

Retired_Minky said:

Thanks for the replies. Doesn't seem like I have any choice but to upset the employee and force them to take the holiday.
Is there a particular format I need to do the notice informing them they must take the holiday? 

An official letter on company paper will suffice (physical or attached to an email, or both).

Simply mention that Regulation 15(5) of the Working Time Regulations 1998 (SI 1998/1833) states that a worker's employer (in this case, you) may require them to take annual leave on particular days by giving the appropriate notice. Such notice should specify the day or days on which leave is required to be taken and must be given twice as many days in advance of the earliest day specified in the notice as the number of days to which the notice relates, ie the length of notice must be at least twice the period of leave it requires the worker to take (reg.15(3) and (4)). For example, if the employer requires the worker to take one week's annual leave at a particular time, it must give the worker at least two weeks' advance notice.

Then go on to list the time periods you are telling them to take off, listing them in full. Failure to comply with the request will result in disciplinary action through the normal channels etc etc.

Goes without saying but obviously make sure you are giving enough notice.

warby68

It might be worth issuing a general notice along these lines to all staff, both for clarity and so as not to single this employee out in any way.
I'd actually still go with a letter first asking for X days to be taken before Y date with the above being the alternative, assuming you are still willing to receive applications for leave. If she STILL doesn't choose some days, at least you will know you will never win with this one.

bradders1983

Fair point. Gentle approach first, give everyone until the middle or end of August (your choice)to either take holiday or book it in, with the threat that if they dont they may be asked to take specified days during Sep-Dec off at your request. Then on the 1st September (or whenever you set the deadline for), assess who has too much holiday left and issue my letter above 

Retired_Minky

Thanks for everyones advice. I'll get this done.
I do feel a bit miffed. I've tried to go above and beyond by paying 100% instead of 80% furlough but this didn't seem to have got me much goodwill. I feel like the villain at the moment.
On a separate note I asked a staff member to fill in a DBS form whilst they were on furlough as their DBS check ran out. I got a reply back saying it was illegal for me to ask them to fill in the form whilst on furlough as they're not meant to do anything work related. I had to bite my tongue. They were technically right but it would have taken less than 10 mins to fill in the form. Most of it was pre-filled and they only had to read and sign.
To be honest I did feel like saying it's the law I only pay you 80% and not 100% of your salary but I left it in the end and asked them to fill in the form when back at work as it was unreasonable for me to ask them to do this while on furlough.
I'll be glad when normal service resumes. 

sharpe106

Hopefully it be back to normal soon, but at least you know who to get rid of if you do need to get rid of anybody.

normanna

Retired Minky
I hope you don't mind me saying as this is meant in the nicest possible way.  You come across as a good boss but could your staff see you as a bit of a pushover?  There's obviously a line between between being a good and considerate boss and your staff thinking you will change your mind if they huff and puff enough.  Remember you're the boss so you need to keep an arms length approach to the staff so they don't feel they can walk all over you.  I wouldn't wait until they all have to take hols in the last quarter if it affects your business.  I would start that process now for at least 1 or 2 weeks if they were my staff.

Good luck

Retired_Minky

normanna said:

Retired Minky
I hope you don't mind me saying as this is meant in the nicest possible way.  You come across as a good boss but could your staff see you as a bit of a pushover?  There's obviously a line between between being a good and considerate boss and your staff thinking you will change your mind if they huff and puff enough.  Remember you're the boss so you need to keep an arms length approach to the staff so they don't feel they can walk all over you.  I wouldn't wait until they all have to take hols in the last quarter if it affects your business.  I would start that process now for at least 1 or 2 weeks if they were my staff.

Good luck

Thanks. You have a valid point. Maybe I do need to be a bit more assertive.
My philosophy has always been to treat people as I'd like to be treated myself. Also despite my moaning I do see the staff as critical to the success of the business so I try to keep them happy (or as happy as I can). 
It's just a shame when they don't always see things my way but I suppose that's life. They'll look at it from their perspective and not always realise the impact on the business. 

paddyandstumpy

Retired_Minky said:

Thanks for everyones advice. I'll get this done.
I do feel a bit miffed. I've tried to go above and beyond by paying 100% instead of 80% furlough but this didn't seem to have got me much goodwill. I feel like the villain at the moment.
On a separate note I asked a staff member to fill in a DBS form whilst they were on furlough as their DBS check ran out. I got a reply back saying it was illegal for me to ask them to fill in the form whilst on furlough as they're not meant to do anything work related. I had to bite my tongue. They were technically right but it would have taken less than 10 mins to fill in the form. Most of it was pre-filled and they only had to read and sign.
To be honest I did feel like saying it's the law I only pay you 80% and not 100% of your salary but I left it in the end and asked them to fill in the form when back at work as it was unreasonable for me to ask them to do this while on furlough.
I'll be glad when normal service resumes. 

The bit in bold is incorrect, the employee is not allowed to fulfil functions which earn the company money. Completing a DBS form won't directly earn money, so I'd suggest would be acceptable. 

It sounds like this employee is trouble, and if I was you I'd suggest to them that the form will need completing on the their return, but they won't be allowed to work until the DBS check is returned 'clean', and the duration waiting for the check returned will be unpaid. 

warby68

paddyandstumpy said:

Retired_Minky said:

Thanks for everyones advice. I'll get this done.
I do feel a bit miffed. I've tried to go above and beyond by paying 100% instead of 80% furlough but this didn't seem to have got me much goodwill. I feel like the villain at the moment.
On a separate note I asked a staff member to fill in a DBS form whilst they were on furlough as their DBS check ran out. I got a reply back saying it was illegal for me to ask them to fill in the form whilst on furlough as they're not meant to do anything work related. I had to bite my tongue. They were technically right but it would have taken less than 10 mins to fill in the form. Most of it was pre-filled and they only had to read and sign.
To be honest I did feel like saying it's the law I only pay you 80% and not 100% of your salary but I left it in the end and asked them to fill in the form when back at work as it was unreasonable for me to ask them to do this while on furlough.
I'll be glad when normal service resumes. 

The bit in bold is incorrect, the employee is not allowed to fulfil functions which earn the company money. Completing a DBS form won't directly earn money, so I'd suggest would be acceptable. 

It sounds like this employee is trouble, and if I was you I'd suggest to them that the form will need completing on the their return, but they won't be allowed to work until the DBS check is returned 'clean', and the duration waiting for the check returned will be unpaid. 

What they said
Keeping their ability to work up to date is not work - in many sectors your professional certifications etc are your own responsibility, not something the boss does for you.
You sound lovely but a pushover at the moment, meant really nicely as good, nice bosses are also worth their weight in gold but it seems evident that your employees are not responding in kind and feel a little too free to dictate. The balance needs resetting. 
If you really aren't good at this stuff face to face, use more written communication and distance yourself just a tiny bit - a change in style will probably make them sit up a bit all by itself.