Surveyor missed serious defect, and immediately offered 'goodwill gesture'

Tabitha005

We recently had a Homebuyer survey undertaken by a RICS registered surveyor. The property is a 1930's bungalow, with a 1980's flat roofed extension. His report suggested a number of recommendations for work that should be 'budgeted for', but he felt the property was good value at the price we had agreed. One of the recommended 'budget for' issues was the ‘re-covering’ (important wording) and potential replacement of 'some' (also important) of the flat roof decking. 

The flat roof extension was undertaken in the 80's and therefore probably needed some attention. We took this point on board and set about getting a quote to have the flat roof re-covered. Upon moving in, we instantly opened the double French doors (UPVC, fitted in Sept 2018) at the back of the house to get some air in, as the place had been empty for approx 18 months (probate case). When we went to close them at the end of the day, we found both doors stuck, as the frame above them had sagged into the void. An hour or so's levering, grunting and shoving the frame (and therefore the flat roof above) upwards finally enabled us to get the doors closed. 

We invited a locally-recommended builder to view the issue and give us his opinion. He immediately stated: "There is absolutely no lintel above that door. It no wonder it's sagging (the span is 4.8m). How the hell didn't the surveyor pick that up?" The dip in the middle is conservatively 35-40mm across the span. 

On looking back at photos we'd taken before we moved in (December), you can see the dip in the roof, but it wasn't apparent to my untrained (I'm no construction professional) eye. We spoke with our buildings insurer, who informed us they wouldn't cover it, but suggested we take the case up with our surveyor to exhaust every opportunity before taking further action. As such, I invited the insurer to revisit our property to discuss. When he arrived, he produced the report from his case, pointed to the recommendation stated above and said that as far as he was concerned, he was not responsible in any way. 

I was somewhat surprised that his 'budget to re-cover and potentially replace some roof deck' comment, was now deemed sufficient to cover 'Oh, by the way, I didn't mention the sagging roof and the fact that it was insufficiently supported, therefore causing your back doors to be stuck forever open' issue. The surveyor claims that he opened both doors during the survey (February) and that they opened and closed freely. I was somewhat perplexed by this, but was even further surprised when he offered to pay us £500 as a goodwill gesture (the survey itself only cost us £430). Not prompted by us. He said he would put it in writing to us that afternoon and if we chose to accept his offer, he would pay the amount into our bank account. 

Well over a week passed without us receiving any further communication, then we eventually received a letter in the post, once more reinstating his position as ‘not liable’ but at the same time confirming his offer of a £500 goodwill gesture. HOWEVER, our acceptance of this offer meant that this would be a full and final settlement and that it would preclude us from any further discussion about any other points in the survey report. 

 

He also stated that the ‘as he stated in the report’ the roofs should be recovered as a matter of urgency, bearing in mind that his actual recommendation was for ‘budgeting for recovering of the flat roofs’ My concern is that if he has missed something of such significance, what else could he have missed, and that our acceptance of his offer may preclude us from any further recourse should any other serious defects come to light. 

 

Having taken anecdotal advice from two other surveyors, they feel that it is very surprising for him to offer a £500 payment, when he supposedly believes that he is not liable in any way, and is in fact, potentially trying to protect his indemnity insurance by avoiding the lodging of a formal complaint against him. I would welcome any guidance on this matter and whether taking the issue to the small claims court would be a sensible course of action.

 

davidmcn

Does your home (or any other) insurance include legal cover?

I would suggest getting an expert (i.e. another surveyor's) opinion on what ought to have been disclosed in the survey, and take it from there.

AdrianC

It's a simple choice...

Accept the £500 in full-and-final settlement... or ask him for his PI insurer's details. Remember, even if they do find him negligent in not noticing it, that doesn't mean he's automatically liable for the full cost of fixing it...

I can well believe that opening the doors then closing them again in the kind of fairly short order that would be the case in surveying in February would not show the same issues as leaving them open for an extended period to air the property in July.

Tabitha005

Yes, our home buildings insurance does include legal cover, however, I would rather see whether it may be worth pursuing the matter ourselves through the small claims court as using the legal cover would probably send the cost of our buildings insurance premium soaring. The legal cover itself was 'thrown in', so we didn't pay any additional premium for it at the outset of this first period of insurance.

Tabitha005

Sorry, I should also have added in my initial post that the surveyor also seemed to think that a roofing specialist would install a lintel 'as a matter of course' when re-covering the flat roofs, which patently isn't the case as a roofing specialist, I would think, wouldn't routinely undertake what is actually 'building work' in installing a lintel. 

I just really feel this surveyor both contradicted himself and tried to say he had drawn our attention to the issue in his original report. Firstly by saying the flat roofs should be 'immediately replaced' (when his report actually only recommended re-covering as 'something to budget for'), and then again on a second issue by saying that installing an appropriate lintel constituted part of the works to re-cover the flat roofs. To my mind (and, admittedly, I am neither a roofing specialist or a builder) installing a lintel wouldn't be something to automatically include when re-covering or re-newing a flat roof. 

ElephantBoy57

Tabitha005 said:

We recently had a Homebuyer survey undertaken by a RICS registered surveyor. The property is a 1930's bungalow, with a 1980's flat roofed extension.

With a home buyers report you will be informed about any obvious major problems and defects that might affect its value, such as obvious rot, damp and subsidence. If the surveyor says that the problem was not obvious and you did not see the problem, then perhaps he did an ok job?

How long ago was the survey done, you say the property has been empty for 18 months.

What is a HomeBuyer Report?

A HomeBuyer Report is essentially a health-check on a property, lifting the lid on what lies inside. It’s suitable for most modern homes, as well as conventional older homes that are in a reasonable state of repair.

https://www.zoopla.co.uk/moving/buyers-guide/surveys/what-s-in-a-homebuyer-report/

steampowered

Do you know how much this would cost to fix? That will tell you whether this is worth pursuing.

If the amount you would claim via legal proceedings is more than £10,000, you cannot use the small claims track (known as the "small claims court").

If you can use the small claims track, this is still not going to be a straightforward case. In order to win in court, you would have to prove that the surveyor was negligent; meaning that the surveyor fell below the standards expected from an ordinary surveyor. That's very difficult to prove, as it can never be guaranteed that a surveyor will identify every issue. 

I imagine the surveyor will claim that he doesn't hold himself out to be a roofing specialist and that he therefore can't be expected to have picked up on this issue.

The judge is not going to determine that issue by himself. You will have to obtain expert evidence. In order to use expert evidence, you will need to get court permission to do so, and that means there will usually need to be a "jointly appointed" expert - likely another surveyor - assessing whether your surveyor was negligent or not.

You also need to read the surveyor's terms and conditions. It is likely that they contain a "limitation of liability" clause which will restrict the amount you could recover.

I hope you can see from the above that this is not a straightforward case in legal terms. I don't think it would be easy to win if you tried to take it on yourself.

NameUnavailable

Presumably your solicitor checked that the extension had the relevant building regs certification?

Have you had a quote for repairing the sagging doorway?

As above a homebuyers report isn't the same as a building survey - I would see what the cost of repair is and decide from there what you do. I doubt you would get any contribution towards the cost of recovering the roof if you do go legal although I am sure that the surveyor would absolutely not want any claim on his PI policy as he may find it impossible to get another one!

Doozergirl

I think that legal cover is often a standalone policy to home insurance so it might not affect renewal...  someone else may know better.  

From what you've described, the roof covering and the missing lintel are completely separate issues and he's trying anything he can to wiggle his way out of this.  

I'd be incensed by it, actually.  Of course a roofer doesn't change lintels.  The man thinks you were born yesterday.  

I'd love to see a photo.  

pinkteapot

Doozergirl said:

I think that legal cover is often a standalone policy to home insurance so it might not affect renewal...  someone else may know better.  

Just what I was about to say. Certainly with the Home Emergency add-on it's usually* a separate policy and claims on that don't count as home insurance claims so don't have to be declared at renewal. The legal cover may well be the same - certainly worth asking your insurer.

* Always has been for me, but check with your individual insurer of course.

It would certainly be worth seeking legal advice if you can get it for free so that you pursue the issue correctly. If going to small claims court my understanding would be that you'll need to quantify how much you're claiming from the surveyor. Do you know how much you're legally entitled to for the error?

Jeepers_Creepers

Hi Tabitha.

I think this comes down to what is included in a Homebuyer's report. If it only includes an inspection of visible areas, then there's a good chance that the failing/non-existent lintel was not visible and might not have expressed itself in any other way either (can you prove the surveyor didn't open and close these doors?  I suspect there's every chance that he did - he would surely have walked around and in and out of every part of the house. And if that door had become difficult to close, he also would have declared this concern in his report.)

So, what's covered in this report? 

The offer of £500 as full and final compensation does, initially, seems suspicious, but it could also just be a wish to not get involved in a prolonged dispute which could cost both parties high legal fees - even if he truly believes he's done nothing wrong. As I said, if the 'lack' of lintel is not visibly obvious, was he supposed to punch an inspection hole through to examine it?  

As I understand LP provided by household insurance, they are great for providing free advice and guidance, and will then take on a case only if they are confident of winning. Ergo, their fees are covered by the likely win, so I don't think it'll affect your premium - but check yours.

I would suggest that you read the T&Cs of the HB's survey carefully and see what is covered, and - if it's clear that the presence/condition of concealed lintels and other structural items is not included - I would suggest you have a poor case against him. I think these surveys are bluntly categorised by whether any 'destructive' inspection is required. (This sort of thing would almost certainly be needed if, for example, you were to apply for retrospective Building Control sign-off for an extension - inspection holes would need to be made in order to confirm the correct construction was followed.)  

If your LP advice is the same as this, then you may wish to accept his (suddenly very generous) offer of £500 and put it towards the cost of that lintel...   (Mind you, if you now know that he isn't really liable, I hope you'll be able to sleep at night if you do take his blood money... :-)  )

You may - quite likely will - find that the joists under that felt roof are in poor condition, at least towards their ends where rot is more likely. Good chance also that it's poorly insulated - if at all. Cost of complete new flat roof (go for GRP...), less than £10K. Cost of adding a new lintel? Oh, another £k? Ie - not the end of the world. 

While you are at it, replace the patio doors with aluminium bi-folds - cost around £4k. Value to improved quality of life and increased value? Priceless... :-)